To be horrified at what my friend has done

[Letthedicefly]

She is a carer for elderly people in their own homes and stole £5 from a lady with dementia.

She is in pieces as she's been caught and keeps saying she only meant to borrow it and would have put it back. She knows it was so wrong but she's in an abusive relationship and had no access to money.

Now she's going to lose her job and get a criminal record which will make her more dependent on him.

I know she's in the wrong but I'm so upset for her as well.

[KungFuhrer]

With no money

Reverse charges or she could have asked a neighbour or even a stranger for 50p.

[Iliveinalighthousewiththeghost]

Oh dear. How do you say that you actually feel sorry for her without being flamed. Her mind was or rather is clearly in a turmoil. Now please please believe me. I am in no way condoning what she did of course I am not, but I do think her dp should be also held accountable because he is part of the reason she felt so desperate that she felt she had no choice to steal from that poor man/lady.
However her workplace have a legal duty of care to their service users. And I do think a sacking is inevitable and the man/lady's family may decide to press charges.
She will also not be able to claim any benefits for up to 6 months as she will have lost her job due to stealing which comes under Gross misconduct but please don't call your friend and tell her that. Let her find out for her self. As it could push her over the edge.
I'm glad. I'm not her

[Letthedicefly]

I'm not saying it was ok but I'm trying to explain she isn't a master criminal but a frightened woman who made a big mistake.

[ollieplimsoles]

Why don't you give her money to use a payphone??

Or offer to help her financially if she is that much trouble!

My friend left an abusive marriage with NOTHING not even a bag of stuff, she just had to wait til he was at work, then she took her daughter and ran.

No sympathy at all I'm afraid.

[Letthedicefly]

She was spending it on petrol so she could work!

[MrsMummyPig]

Even if it really was the first time and she was truly desperate I'm pleased she was caught otherwise i think it was unlikely to have been the last time.

[Passmethecrisps]

Maybe she needs to seek support from the citizens advice bureau about her own financial situation and the theft.

I can't imagine how desperate someone must be to do something like this.

[Letthedicefly]

Because I didn't know she was broke. Please don't make this my fault, I'd obviously have helped her financially if I had known.

[emotionsecho]

If she has no access to money how was she planning on paying it back?

You say your friend is in a vulnerable position, but it is a position she could change no matter how hard or difficult that may seem instead she has stolen from a person who is more vulnerable and in a situation they cannot change.

Why did she not call you? If you are as good a friend as you imply surely you could have gone to her?

What she has done is far more than 'bad'.

[Letthedicefly]

She doesn't have a phone. She didn't have any money at all.
Please don't insinuate I'm a bad friend! I didn't know.

[chairmeoh]

OP, I was trying to be understanding of your position as a friend when you first posted.
But now you are minimising what she has done. Do you think her victim feels safe in her home right now? Do you think the family are sleeping well? Do you think they are having to make other arrangements for her care because their trust in carers has been broken?

[Iliveinalighthousewiththeghost]

I'm not saying it is okay, but I'm trying to explain she isn't a master criminal but a frightened women who made a big mistake.

^
This

[eurochick]

We're going through the other side of this at the moment. My gran has dementia. She is cared for in her own home. Money keeps going missing. Either she is losing it (unlikely as she no longer goes out), or her "friend" or her carer are taking it. She keeps phoning my parents up accusing them of stealing it (it is them giving it to her). It's a horrible situation for a vulnerable person and our family as we go through this. I have no sympathy. I also doubt it was the first time.

[findingherfeet]

What does it matter if it's £5 or £500? It's a complete abuse of position and trust. Utterly disgusting, she should never work with vulnerable people again.

[Iliveinalighthousewiththeghost]

Why are there pops at the op. She didn't steal the money

[Passmethecrisps]

Hence my suggestion she should repost elsewhere.

[Lurkedforever1]

I have no sympathy at all. whatever her circumstances if she was that desperate she could still have the morals to go and steal from tescos or somewhere rather than a vulnerable adult, there is no excuse for her. Hope she does get a record and they sling the book at her.
In my mind, £5 or not, stealing from an elderly dementia sufferer when you're in a position of trust is worse than ram raiding a warehouse or car dealership. It's the lowest of the low.

[SnakeyMcBadass]

I get that she's your friend so you want to see her in the best light. Unfortunately, I'm on the other side and one of the most distressing things about losing someone you love to dementia is having to rely on strangers to care for them. They are as vulnerable and trusting as toddlers and the thought of someone taking advantage of them or hurting them keeps you awake at night. My mother baths my grandmother twice a week specifically to make sure she isn't mistreated. It's a hideous disease and it breaks your heart. I'm afraid I think your friend deserves to lose her job. However desperate her situation, she has a functioning brain and the ability to work out a plan of escape. The person she stole from does not. It really is that black and white for me.

[stayathomegardener]

My DM has dementia, she has "lost" £800 in the last three weeks...
I need to phone tomorrow to acceppt the £1000 quote for CCTV.
The saddest thing is she can't trust anyone coming to care for her and now thinks her belongings are being stolen too.

No sympathy for your friend I am afraid.

[chippednailvarnish]

Welcome to MN OP.

She picked the most vulnerable person she could. Someone who couldn't stop her or communicate what she was doing. I have no sympathy.

[WorraLiberty]

OP I don't know what you want from this thread.

I know you said you want to know how to support her, but do you really think that coming to a public forum where people will no doubt have elderly and vulnerable family members who they worry about, is going to end anything other than badly?

Particularly since you are trying to minimise what she has done.

It's not the amount of money, it's the massive breach of trust. That poor family must have been pretty worried to install cameras in the first place.

Also, carers are often in charge of money for shopping etc so it's not always a case of stealing it from a drawer.

My Dad's friend's carer was milking his pension whenever she went to draw it out for him.

I'm not saying your friend did this, but I am saying you're being very naive to keep going on about a fiver, instead of getting the fact that this poor elderly person is now a victim.

[Gabilan]

"I hope some people will see it isn't that bad and not judge her too harshly and because I wanted to offload myself it's been hard supporting her."

I think it is that bad. However, I also think we're probably all capable of doing bad things to varying degrees if pushed. So the question then becomes is she, on balance, a basically good person who did something shitty in an extreme situation or is she on balance a really not so good person who fucked up in a situation where other people would have coped better.

I think good on you for sticking by your friend. The thought of losing your job is terrifying. However I agree with PP that if she's dishonest enough to steal, you may find she's being dishonest in other ways too.

[Luckyfellow]

It is a sad situation for all involved. I feel terrible for a person in an abusive relationship who can see no way out. If this is what happened she must be very scared now.

[MiscellaneousAssortment]

I am that person that gets exploited by the odd disgusting carer - I'm disabled, and have had money, vouchers stolen five times that I'm aware of, over 4 years. Last summer it was £120 in total gone, a carer had rifled through my bedside table for my next 2 weeks food money, my emergency travel money from my handbag, oh and my childs pigy bank. And she then pretended to console me when I found it gone... Took me a while to work out it was her as I had other carers, I thought it couldn't possibly be her as she seemed so honest and upset as I cried on her.

And that's the tip of the iceberg, and just the stealing, not the huge amount of breakages, and the neglect, bullying and abuse I've suffered at the hands of carers.

I have no sympathy. You may be surprised to hear this post is mainly me getting a bit ranty, but people who are vulnerable have a basic right not to get their remaining dignity and independence stripped from them. That's what stealing does.

And I'm sure most people have sob stories to justify their exploitation of someone more vulnerable than themselves. But there is no excuse.

She can leave an abusive partner in quite a few ways that don't involve making someone else her victim.

Or maybe she decided her need was greater and what does it matter, the dozy old woman won't notice right? Cos she gets to decide what rights someone else has as she has power over that person... And she decided that she had a right to take money away from a person that can't protect themselves.

Then uses the excuse that she herself is abused so somehow that's fine to abuse someone else? Pass the abuse down the line yes?

Hummm. I normally try and see the other persons point of view but this time, no. It's not excuseable.

She has friends, as evidenced by you posting this, why didn't she ask them for help? Why didn't she ask Women's Aid for help? Why didn't she ask the police for help? Why didn't she ask social services for help? Why didn't she ask benefits office, council or housing for help???

But no, she decided to steal from one of the only persons more vulnerable than herself.

I hope she does get banned from working as a carer. Her boundaries and ethics are totally screwed up so people need protecting from her. And I hope she gets out of her relationship. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

But I can just imagine someone like her coming into my house and deciding to steal from me next time.

My childs piggy bank was emptied by someone just like her. I couldn't afford to replace the money, but hey who gives a fuck right? She probably needed the money more, oh poor her... Never mind that my 4 yr old cried when he found it had gone when I said he could spend his money on a ride at the funfair.

Now, I assume it wasn't her who was one of the carers who stole from me and my little one... But I bet they justified it somehow. Ironically (ok I'm not sure it's ironic, but I'm ranting!), I would give someone money and help to escape from an abusive relationship, but that's different from someone coming into my house and deciding they can take tjjngs just because I can't physically stop them, or in this poor ladies case, because she can't mentally stop someone taking her money.

Sorry end of rant. Cut a bit close to the bone.

[BeaufortBelle]

Can I just whisper gently that when my grandma had dementia and was still living at home she used to accuse my mother and grandfather of stealing from her. They were taking her money, her jewellery, her belongings generally. The weren't but the belief they were was part of the illness. It is a terrible, terrible disease.

I am truly sorry for your friend. I sometimes have to dismiss people. If she is honest and shows she reflects and can prove mitigating circumstances I would be as fair as possible. If she were to ask if she could resign before a hearing I would agree.