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Original poster

to think that the Calais migrants are economic migrants and should not be given asylum?

558 replies

cabbagesouppirate · 30/07/2015 08:57

All of the Calais migrants are young men. If they were true asylum seekers seeking safety from persecution they could have claimed asylum in a number of safe countries Western countries already, including France which is hardly a dangerous place. Instead they camp out in Calais, causing a nuisance, a mess, costing the UK and France a lot of money, making the lives of lorry drivers and tourists hell and the situation is becoming increasingly dangerous. I sincerely hope these people are not given asylum in the UK and any that have managed to reach the UK should be fast tracked out of the country and given economic assistance whilst they are here.

OP posts:
Figmentofmyimagination · 31/07/2015 09:12

It's a funny old world. We open the doors to everyone from all 27 member states, and then get upset about allowing in a few thousand people fleeing persecution and war - AND at the same time, cap non-EU inward migration, even by skilled workers we actually need.

We've been here before - in the years following the arrival of the windrush. Identity politics - picking on outsider groups seen as a threat - instead of focusing on externalities like the low tax take, or the fact that the property market has been allowed to spiral out of control, public housing has become a dirty word, and zero hours jobs have been allowed to proliferate. It suits the government for people to see migrants as the target to blame.

None of this was inevitable but was the result of deliberate government policy choices that are still being made. Migration hurts because we have allowed ourselves to become a low wage/low skill economy with underfunded public services.

blowinahoolie · 31/07/2015 09:39

"You've added Germany in now to muddy the waters. Is that because when you looked on a map you saw where Sweden actually is and realised you'd been talking mince?"

Sweden's a bit further north but much easier to travel to than the UK! Look at all the troubles at Calais the migrants are having, yet if they'd just went a bit further north towards Scandi countries they'd have been able to claim asylum by now. It's wasted energy.

woodhill · 31/07/2015 10:00

having even more people here to compete for housing, jobs etc isn't going to help us. They are not going to be earning 30K for a long time. I don't think people wanted the free movement in Europe in the early 00s anyway but again it was thrust on us whereas Germany and France put in more controls.

I think the borders at Libya need to be reinforced so no more come and the ones at Calais need to be detained in France and not allowed to linger there.

Justanotherlurker · 31/07/2015 10:11

Free movement of Europe is something different. It's hardly fair that their choice is now resulting in our border being swamped, but practically we must do something. We would be helping them because they've put themselves in a politically impossible position with which they clearly cannot cope, plus we want to curry favour for other purposes.

Justanotherlurker · 31/07/2015 10:12

Damnit phone

Free movement of Europe is something different

France signed the Schengen agreement, opening their border to anyone who makes it to the rest of Europe. It's hardly fair etc..

JassyRadlett · 31/07/2015 10:14

Sweden's a bit further north but much easier to travel to than the UK! Look at all the troubles at Calais the migrants are having, yet if they'd just went a bit further north towards Scandi countries they'd have been able to claim asylum by now.

I imagine for many of them, there have been more opportunities in their lives to learn English than Swedish...

JassyRadlett · 31/07/2015 10:16

having even more people here to compete for housing, jobs etc isn't going to help us. They are not going to be earning 30K for a long time.

Why are you talking about £30k? And given that we don't collect information on the skills or education of our immigrants (unlike Sweden), you're making rather a lot of assumptions about asylum seekers, their education, experience and potential, aren't you? Why is that?

Wheretheresawill1 · 31/07/2015 10:21

The public services in this country can already take no more. Crime,,education; nhs;,housing - all under massive pressure already from other immigrants.
I can tell you now the majority of these are not nice people- our prisons and secure hospitals are packed. Translation services are making a lot of money in prisons and hospitals in my local area

JassyRadlett · 31/07/2015 10:25

Wheretheresawill, did you seriously mean 'the majority of immigrants are not nice people'?

Do you have any evidence to back that up, at all?

GraysAnalogy · 31/07/2015 10:26

Do people accessing healthcare disgust you?

What are you talking about?

if you can't have a debate and discuss these matters without making snide comments like that - don't get involved in them.

Figmentofmyimagination · 31/07/2015 10:42

Free movement of Europe is something different.

Well not really - it is a key part of the debate. I am in favour of free movement - but surely the extraordinary cock up by Blair and Brown, in terms of underestimating the number of migrants from Eastern Europe likely to want to come to the UK - "a few thousand at most", I think they said - must go down as one of the biggest political blunders in the UK since the war. NOT that these migrants should not have been allowed to come, but rather that the projections made by the UK on which we based our preparations - in terms of EU subsidy levels, public infrastructure - school places, hospitals etc - were all based on a completely flawed estimate, and now these asylum seekers are paying part of the price for that.

Viviennemary · 31/07/2015 10:46

The point is that many many people want to come to the UK and can't. Or go through the proper procedures and it would take a long time. And yet those migrants in France think that by committing criminal acts and vandalising lorries and causing chaos they can get into the UK. It's time to get tough.

Tenieht · 31/07/2015 10:50

A lot of these people will be people you would not want in your country, violent, not afraid to use knives, lived on the margins all their lives, criminal records . Do we really welcome all these people ? Madness.

fishboneschokus · 31/07/2015 10:54

I heard on r4 this morning someone saying that anyone who has interviewed the migrants in Calais will know that many have raised money for their trip by borrowing bits from different people in their village. They then find work to repay the loan. So getting work is a priority. This would explain why so many are young men.

fishboneschokus · 31/07/2015 10:57

And I also don't understand why they are not arrested and charged if they are breaking and entering and threatening lorry drivers with knives.

Does anyone know why? Is it that the French don't want them in their penal system? Would that be a deterrent.

Yet again, I am glad that I forgot to become prime minister.

FriendofBill · 31/07/2015 10:57

grays you were complaining about 23 million spend interpreters for people to access healthcare.

To access healthcare!
You know, medical treatment.
And you call me snide?

GraysAnalogy · 31/07/2015 11:02

Where was I complaining? I stated that interpretation alone cost 23 million, following on from dads post.

That is a fact, and one we acknowledge as immigration rises costs for the NHS. Discussing how much it costs isn't complaining.

You put the emotive aspect on my post not me. I work in healthcare I know how much people need it.

StregaNona · 31/07/2015 11:04

A lot of these people will be people you would not want in your country, violent, not afraid to use knives, lived on the margins all their lives, criminal records

What do you base that on please?

Moreshabbythanchic · 31/07/2015 11:06

My daughter lived in France for a while, whenever she needed medical treatment she had to pay for it and also had to pay for an interpreter herself.

Why do we bear the cost of interpreters and medical treatment for anyone who rocks up in our country?

The80sweregreat · 31/07/2015 11:09

The footage this morning of the 3 men jumping out of the lorry park in the midlands was shocking - where will they go? as others have said, they are clearly not afraid of the law and to obtain money and shelter might mean that they use violence to get it. Will the police have to try and track them down on CCTV in order to round them up and get them to a reception centre or police station to be properly processed? will they know where they are going because they have family in that area? we have been told they have been given mobiles and so on, by who? who really knows.

but nevermind, DC is chairing a COBRA meeting at number 10, I am sure he will sort it all out by the weekend ready for his holiday next week..(I know im a cynical old hag and all of them are as bad as each other, the wars in other counties are the reason we're in this mess etc, etc, but I just worry what happens to the ones that have run off?) none of this was followed up on the news and wasn't even on the website.
The haulier of this lorry now has a lovely bill to find to fix it up and probably questions as to how he didn't know 3 were on there!

StregaNona · 31/07/2015 11:14

Why do we bear the cost of interpreters and medical treatment for anyone who rocks up in our country?

It depends on agreements between countries. e.g. the UK has several reciprocal health agreements with different countries. So, yes, the UK pay for their visitors here but they will do the same for UK visitors there.

www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/Healthcareabroad/countryguide/NonEEAcountries/Pages/Non-EEAcountries.aspx

Did your daughter have an EHIC card? If she did, she should have got the French state health care at a reduced cost or free - she should not have had to pay the full amount, I don't think.

www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/Healthcareabroad/countryguide/Pages/healthcareinFrance.aspx

Coffeemarkone · 31/07/2015 11:17

" whenever she needed medical treatment she had to pay for it and also had to pay for an interpreter herself. "

Did she not have an EHIC card?

Coffeemarkone · 31/07/2015 11:21

" Why do we bear the cost of interpreters and medical treatment for anyone who rocks up in our country "

Because it is better than having diseased people with eg scabies (cheaply cured) wandering around the country. Gotta look at the bigger picture.

Wheretheresawill1 · 31/07/2015 11:32

Based on my experience Jassy. Something I see with my own eyes. Something I see in my work in criminal justice.. Don't get me started on cost as well- each one of our beds each year is 250k- a basic bed without interpreting costs. A snap poll revealed 70 of 100 beds tsken up... Yes an eye watering cost in only one part of the country... A much bigger percentage 70% of beds taken by those not born in this country. Sadly people like yourself just can't see it because anybody with a different view to yourselves is immediately branded racist or uncaring which if u ask me is an attempt to shut the discussion down

blowinahoolie · 31/07/2015 11:36

"I imagine for many of them, there have been more opportunities in their lives to learn English than Swedish..."

The Swedes are very competent at speaking English themselves, so it's hardly much of an issue. In fact, most of the Scandi citizen speak extremely good English.