to think that the Calais migrants are economic migrants and should not be given asylum?

[cabbagesouppirate]

All of the Calais migrants are young men. If they were true asylum seekers seeking safety from persecution they could have claimed asylum in a number of safe countries Western countries already, including France which is hardly a dangerous place. Instead they camp out in Calais, causing a nuisance, a mess, costing the UK and France a lot of money, making the lives of lorry drivers and tourists hell and the situation is becoming increasingly dangerous. I sincerely hope these people are not given asylum in the UK and any that have managed to reach the UK should be fast tracked out of the country and given economic assistance whilst they are here.

surely we just accept and process people according to current - strict - immigration policy

I'm not sure anyone is suggesting anything different - but if these people are processed, assessed and then dealt with accordingly I am sure that would be a solution

I would have an EU 'commission' to do this in Calais - with member nations agreeing to share those with a right to remain

and if they do get the right to remain - in the EU and they get an EU passport - then they can come here anyway :)

" Some people are not on here to have a rational discussion but just to put people down "

gosh yes you are so right, I even had one person trying to tell everyone to ignore me!

Mrs Jonah, of your three I would choose 'B' but it is so tricky.

stats on migration flows

Pertinent paragraph "Germany reported the largest number of immigrants (692.7 thousand) in 2013, followed by the United Kingdom (526.0 thousand), France (332.6 thousand), Italy (307.5 thousand) and Spain (280.8 thousand). Spain reported the highest number of emigrants in 2013 (532.3 thousand), followed by the United Kingdom (316.9 thousand), France (300.8 thousand), Poland (276.4 thousand) and Germany (259.3 thousand). A total of 16 of the EU Member States reported more immigration than emigration in 2013, but in Bulgaria, Ireland, Greece, Spain, Croatia, Cyprus, Poland, Portugal, Romania and the three Baltic Member States, emigrants outnumbered immigrants."

Yes ghosty I know what you're saying but what to do about the immediate problems in Calais and the mass of migrants making their way towards it? An EU processing commission in Calais would be a good practical step but what do we do with the people who are refused asylum? And how can we repatriate them when they are told to tear up their documents for this very reason?

It just seems impossible to find the balance between being humane and maintaining border control.

One side of this argument says that our country is on its knees and can't keep its own native inhabitants going.

The other side says we should show compassion and let in people who by accident of birth were born into countries where they have less.

If the tax dodging loopholes were tightened, properly tightened, including those relating to the massively wealthy migrants that the UK welcomes, would there be enough money to go some way towards helping both sides?

It's just a question, I don't know the answer, but I'm hoping someone better informed than me might.

I think the stats establish that on absolute numbers, the UK isn't dealing with "huge" numbers of immigrants/asylum seekers as compared with other EU countries.

What IS completely different, and is very hard to watch, is the situation around Calais. It seems to me that it isn't anything much to do with immigration/asylum policy, it's how to deal practically with that situation that needs answers.

There isn't a quick fix.
There are solutions but they are not immediate.

Calais is a small problem compared to the shortages the whole planet is facing if developed countries do not slow down consumption of the worlds resources.

Inequality is the problem.
Until there is fairness we are going to keep on seeing situations like Calais.

Thinking on acceptable solutions, imagine that you are those people, or, that they are your family.
Which ones would you spare?

It just seems impossible to find the balance between being humane and maintaining border control.

Could that be because border control is inhumane?

Is that a question bill? Or a veiled statement

So anyone who wants to should just come here? And we house them where and school their kids where and look after their health needs where?

Statistics are statistics the average person isnt interested in them.

fullfact.org/factcheck/immigration/migrants_calais-46882

You don't have to "spare" them friend of Bill. They just register as refugees in France. They aren't in any danger in France, it isn't a scary country. Have you never been abroad? France is OK.

Clearly Doe was, frankie, or she wouldn't have asked?

Why isn't the 'average' person interested in statistics, in your view? They can help everyone to form opinions based on fact rather than hyperbolic rhetoric (Germany rich/we're on the breadline, etc).

Ok, lets kick,out the lords from Westminster and let them live there!
Cloud cuckoo land- you bet!

Thanks for the stats btw. I'm reading through them and trying to pretend I'm still interested in my family

Everyone against, is talking through fear.

If you don't let fear dictate your response what is the solution?

I don't think housing these people here and making them like us is the right way...I don't think we have the right way.

I think we are the problem!

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jul/30/the-only-migrant-madness-is-the-tabloid-pretence-about-events-in-calais?CMP=share_btn_tw

How can we repatriate them when they are told to tear up their documents for this very reason?

How do we deal with it now - it must be a fairly common practice? surely it's not a new thing?

Bill this is unfortunately what I mean about student idealism. 'Border control is inhumane'? So complete freedom of movement? That might have worked when global population was a bit lower but it won't work now.

'We' may be the problem but if we allow complete freedom with immigration our standard of living will deteriorate to the point where we are no longer an attractive option. Which will, as a side effect, make us less of a target for economic migrants.

There's lots of rhetoric on this thread, not very many practical, short term solutions - like what to do with the 5000 and rising migrants in Calais.

Doe is and i hope she gets the info she is looking for, but i sill maintain the stats a lot of people are concerned with equate to how many people are at calaise waiting to enter the uk

For a lot of the wider public Calais is the straw that's broken the camels back and is a visualisation of how they see immigration

I don't know ghosty - I don't know how it's dealt with now. It does seem to be reaching a critical mass at Calais though. I think your EU commission at Calais is a good idea but I wonder would it be worth just granting everyone there asylum and starting a newer, tougher regime with a blank slate.

I do think that targeting the traffickers would help but how you would do such a thing in chaotic countries is beyond me.

also if people are claiming asylum surely they say where that are fleeing from as part of why?

Can't disagree doe