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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

How much do you earn and who do you vote for

450 replies

Beautifulbabyboy · 29/07/2015 07:08

So inspired, by another thread that contained the words "labour are cancer" I am genuinely interested in the correlation between what people earn and who they vote for. Is anyone else interested in this?

Our household income is £125k pa and we vote labour, even though we would be worse off, because I think we should help society as a whole.

OP posts:
LuluJakey1 · 29/07/2015 23:56

What a load of toot Red.

emwithme · 30/07/2015 00:25

My income: c£8k, entirely from disability benefits
DH earns around £17k from his day job, and about £3k from other stuff
We also get around £5k in property income.

Voted conservative. Have lost friend(s) over this; apparently because I'm disabled I should've voted Labour (they didn't get that if I said all women should vote a particular way people would be up in arms but it's OK to classify "disabled people" as one homogeneous blob who all think/feel the same things). Just no. Not ever going to happen. I went to a private school on an Assisted Place, I cannot forgive the Labour Party for taking that opportunity away from people in the guise of "social equality".

I'm a pretty "old school" conservative though - my ideal is reasonable taxation with responsible social welfare. Highly Eurosceptic. Socially very liberal, fiscally conservative.

UsedToBeAPaxmanFan · 30/07/2015 00:36

Household income just under £100k. I vote Labour, Dh votes LibDem or Green. We would be worse off financially under a labour government, but I strongly believe thst it is only the Labour party who will protect the more vulnerable members of society.

Jayne1958 · 30/07/2015 00:36

Household income £80k, vote conservative

toobreathless · 30/07/2015 01:11

Two adults joint income around 90k

Both conservative.

Frostox · 30/07/2015 02:37

emwithme staunch labourite here (though despise Blair & co), but just wanted to say that I'd never heard of the assisted places scheme (was only 10 in 1997) and have just had a wee google and that's really interesting so thanks for bringing it up! If the money had been ploughed into bringing comps up to standard with privates I'd support that sort of policy but... well.

To others - really heartened to see so many high earners expressing so much desire for social justice and paying into the system to protect the vulnerable. My (tory) family drive me mad telling me that my views will change when I'm earning more ££ and genuinely don't believe people could vote out of concern for a better society rather than self interest so I may direct them to this thread!

ColinFirthsGirth · 30/07/2015 04:03

Household income of £17,000. I voted Green but would vote Labour if they become more left wing

RedDaisyRed · 30/07/2015 06:24

But Frost many of us vote Tory not out of self interest but out of concern for a better society.

Mistigri · 30/07/2015 06:34

I suppose it depends on what you think is better, and for whom.

Frostox I'm not that surprised by this thread. Almost all my peers (most of whom are educated and reasonably high earners) are left of centre. On the face of it, it might seem surprising that there are so few conservative voters, but fewer than 25% of the population voted Tory and many of those will have been from segments of the population who don't post on mumsnet. (Retirees of course, and if the US experience can be extrapolated to the UK, then it is also likely that men are overrepresented on the right).

permenantrecord · 30/07/2015 06:40

Just youwill have to dispute that with someone else then, as tthat'snot what i said. And again, as i am entirely uncertain how iI would preferpeople to vote that point is void.

My phone can't open your links.

PageNotFound404 · 30/07/2015 06:51

Household income around £40k, (me full-time/DH disability benefits & pension), both voted Labour but more as a "best of a bad bunch" option. Swithered between Labour and Green pretty much up to polling day. Would rather eat somebody else's toenails than vote Tory.

Have now registered with Labour as an associate purely to vote for Corbyn in the leadership election.

permenantrecord · 30/07/2015 06:51

Red- as of yet no ones answered my questions as how they feel the torys will do this - your points were vague and overly easy for me to disprove (which says very little, as I'd be the first to admit I am probably younger, less educated, less informed on politics than many, so if I can see the glaring flaws in your argument its very reduntant)

I know lots of labour voters in real life, I know why they think labour will be best for the country- although I only agree on few points, and perhaps only as a lesser evil. I'd like someone to give me genuine answers to the questions i ask- how do torys protect the economy, the vulnerable, create opopportunities and go after tax avoidance- no one has given any specific answers o these other than your flimsy easy to knock down points. And you still haven't answered my questions about ni & tax being combined (the specific questions I asked, not more vagueness)

TidyDancer · 30/07/2015 07:05

Household income of about £60k. Both Labour voters (and members) because we dont hate those less fortunate and don't want to screw over the poor. Voted LibDem once but never again. Sadly live in a very safe Tory seat (Home Counties) so nothing will ever change for us locally.

RedDaisyRed · 30/07/2015 07:12

I did answer them. You don't like the ansawers because you are of the left but you're wrong. The Tories always do better for the economy. Also if you reward work then nations do better. If instead you run a country like Greece has been run then the coffers end up bear and the poor are out on the streets. You need clear incentives to people to put in effort and work hard and pay taxes.

BMW6 · 30/07/2015 07:12

No-one has to answer your questions permenantrecord - you only want to get into a heated debate over them and why would anyone have to justify their voting choice to you? Hmm The election was months ago, so jog on, there's a dear.

Mrswire123 · 30/07/2015 07:13

Is anybody else Shock at how much people earn? I thought we were pretty well off but clearly not!! Sorry, know this thread isn't about this but didn't realise how low our household income was! I earn £14k (part time) - green voter. Husband £32k - labour.

RedDaisyRed · 30/07/2015 07:20

Yes, I am surprised too. I think graduate women who keep working full time after babies tend to have husbands who are similar so it would not be unusual in cities if she earns £40k and he £50k which is what takes people near £100k. If women or men give up work or go part time though it does plung many down into much lower incomes - something people need to think about when they have their first child and indeed this issue of which careers our teenagers might be directed towards (not that mine listen to me) is useful too - if you can see graduate professional women on here earning a lot then people might sensible direct their daughter away from leaving school at 16 or doing that degree in needlework and off towards something that pays well.

Most people in the UK do earn only about £23k, all studies show. I suppose those ones were out at 5am getting 2 buses to their first cleaning job of the day. The ones of us who can laze around and are rich enough to afford a phone or computer are may be the ones posting here (and yes I am one of the highest earners on MN but I don't say the amount - under £1n 0 one lady the other day said she earned £1m and she does earn more than I do).

I am not sure it matters generally as whether you are happy or not tends not to relate to earnings so if someone earns more than I do good luck to them. I am content although I will be even more content if we can get the Tories in again at the end of these 5 years.

(oopd my "bear" should be bare above... so much for supposedly being a good speller.....)

permenantrecord · 30/07/2015 07:45

Red I asked you why you think they are good for the economy- you haven't gave a specific answer. And I pointed out plenty of evidence that contridicts your claim 'they are always good for the economy'.

I explained how your point about increased personal allowance doesn't mean anything really. And I ask you for more information re the benefit of ni & tax being combined and you haven't provided that.

I ask many of my labour voting friends similar and find their claims similarly unsubstantiated. I was just asking for evidence of why you believe these things, because I don't see any evidence that proves these claims, so if there is evidence I haven't came across others have I would like to be better informed.

permenantrecord · 30/07/2015 07:47

BMW I am not interested in a heated anything (so your mind reading skillsare failing you) i am ininterested in why people think this way- what evidence they find that proves these claims.

BMW6 · 30/07/2015 08:06

You are still asking people to justify their choice by asking for evidence to support their vote!

Who the fuck are you!

Tiresome beyond belief. The subject has been done to death on dozens of other threads.

RedDaisyRed · 30/07/2015 09:15

I'm trying to earn a crus here but on one of those.....
"nd I ask you for more information re the benefit of ni & tax being combined and you haven't provided that"
That was all over the papers just recently so try a google search. Osborne has put out for consultation merging tax and NI which I very much support. I think the idea is employer NI is preserved and also that the combined NI/Tax rate will be about what tax/NI currently is and that the old will be protectd with a 20% and 40% lower rate. Also it will be good news for psopoe on say £9k who currently pay NI but no tax . However it has been looked at every 10 years for abotu 30 years so I am not holding my breath that they will manage it.

I would certrainly support a move away from conrtibutory benefits and abolition of state pension for people under 50 or 40 going forwards with a basic state pension just for those without means once they turn 70. The myth of contributory benefits needs to be scotched - we don't really have them in the UK.

Mia1415 · 30/07/2015 09:20

£51k single parent. Voted conservative. Don't trust labour to manage the country or the economy.

PanGalaticGargleBlaster · 30/07/2015 09:32

Little

Exactly Holowiwi. My point is that these children are abused by virtue that they are vulnerable, not because Pakistani gangs see them as slags and fair game. Jimmy Savile's abuse was covered up. The abuse of children by politicians in the highest seats of power was and no doubt still is covered up. The common denominator? Children who are beneath the radar, in care, come from families who neither know nor care where they are, what they're doing or who they're with. Rotherham is a useful distraction because people can attribute that to rogue Pakistani groups of men with no respect for their white victims. But what about all the abuse carried out in the Catholic church, by celebrities and those in power?

A fine bit of whataboutery. Disgusting that they are we are not talking about Saville or the Catholic Church, we are talking about Rotherham, an abuse case which you maintain had nothing to do with race. Do yourself a favour and read the independent Jay Inquiry, just the executive summary on the first few pages:

www.rotherham.gov.uk/downloads/file/1407/independent_inquiry_cse_in_rotherham

Actually I shall save you the trouble, here is the summary below:

***

Executive Summary

No one knows the true scale of child sexual exploitation (CSE) in Rotherham over the years. Our conservative estimate is that approximately 1400 children were sexually exploited over the full Inquiry period, from 1997 to 2013.^

In just over a third of cases, children affected by sexual exploitation were previously known to services because of child protection and neglect. It is hard to describe the appalling nature of the abuse that child victims suffered. They were raped by multiple perpetrators, trafficked to other towns and cities in the north of England, abducted, beaten, and intimidated. There were examples of children who had been doused in petrol and threatened with being set alight, threatened with guns, made to witness brutally violent rapes and threatened they would be next if they told anyone. Girls as young as 11 were raped by large numbers of male perpetrators.

This abuse is not confined to the past but continues to this day. In May 2014, the caseload of the specialist child sexual exploitation team was 51. More CSE cases were held by other children's social care teams. There were 16 looked after children who were identified by children?s social care as being at serious risk of sexual exploitation or having been sexually exploited. In 2013, the Police received 157 reports concerning child sexual exploitation in the Borough.

Over the first twelve years covered by this Inquiry, the collective failures of political and officer leadership were blatant. From the beginning, there was growing evidence that child sexual exploitation was a serious problem in Rotherham. This came from those working in residential care and from youth workers who knew the young people well.

Within social care, the scale and seriousness of the problem was underplayed by senior managers. At an operational level, the Police gave no priority to CSE, regarding many child victims with contempt and failing to act on their abuse as a crime. Further stark evidence came in 2002, 2003 and 2006 with three reports known to the Police and the Council, which could not have been clearer in their description of the situation in Rotherham. The first of these reports was effectively suppressed because some senior officers disbelieved the data it contained. This had led to suggestions of cover-up. The other two reports set out the links between child sexual exploitation and drugs, guns and criminality in the Borough. These reports were ignored and no action was taken to deal with the issues that were identified in them.

In the early 2000s, a small group of professionals from key agencies met and monitored large numbers of children known to be involved in CSE or at risk but their managers gave little help or support to their efforts. Some at a senior level in the Police and children's social care continued to think the extent of the problem, as described by youth workers, was exaggerated, and seemed intent on reducing the official numbers of children categorised as CSE. At an operational level, staff appeared to be overwhelmed by the numbers involved. There were improvements in the response of management from about 2007 onwards. By 2009, the children's social care service was acutely understaffed and over stretched, struggling to cope with demand.

Seminars for elected members and senior officers in 2004-05 presented the abuse in the most explicit terms. After these events, nobody could say 'we didn't know'. In 2005, the present Council Leader chaired a group to take forward the issues, but there is no record of its meetings or conclusions, apart from one minute.

By far the majority of perpetrators were described as 'Asian' by victims, yet throughout the entire period, councillors did not engage directly with the Pakistani-heritage community to discuss how best they could jointly address the issue. Some councillors seemed to think it was a one-off problem, which they hoped would go away. Several staff described their nervousness about identifying the ethnic origins of perpetrators for fear of being thought racist; others remembered clear direction from their managers not to do so.

In December 2009, the Minister of State for Children and Families put the Council's children?s safeguarding services into intervention, following an extremely critical Ofsted report. The Council was removed from intervention thirteen months later.

The Rotherham Safeguarding Children Board and its predecessor oversaw the development of good inter-agency policies and procedures applicable to CSE. The weakness in their approach was that members of the Safeguarding Board rarely checked whether these were being implemented or whether they were working. The challenge and scrutiny function of the Safeguarding Board and of the Council itself was lacking over several years at a time when it was most required.

In 2013, the Council Leader, who has held office since 2003, apologised for the quality of the Council's safeguarding services being less than it should have been before 2009. This apology should have been made years earlier, and the issue given the political leadership it needed.

There have been many improvements in the last four years by both the Council and the Police. The Police are now well resourced for CSE and well trained, though prosecutions remain low in number. There is a central team in children's social care which works jointly with the Police and deals with child sexual exploitation. This works well but the team struggles to keep pace with the demands of its workload. The Council is facing particular challenges in dealing with increased financial pressures, which inevitably impact on frontline services. The Safeguarding Board has improved its response to child sexual exploitation and holds agencies to account with better systems for file audits and performance reporting. There are still matters for children?s social care to address such as good risk assessment, which is absent from too many cases, and there is not enough long-term support for the child victims.

Read section 11 as well, titled: Issues of ethnicity

....and just in case you are still being willfully obtuse, here are a few reccommendatiosn from the report:

Minority ethnic communities

Recommendation 12: There should be more direct and more frequent engagement by the Council and also the Safeguarding Board with women and men from minority ethnic communities on the issue of CSE and other forms of abuse.

Recommendation 13: The Safeguarding Board should address the under-reporting of sexual exploitation and abuse in minority ethnic communities.

The issue of race

Recommendation 14: The issue of race should be tackled as an absolute priority if it is a significant factor in the criminal activity of organised child sexual abuse in the Borough.

Just admit you are entirely wrong when you say that race had nothing to do with the Rotherham abuse scandal

FatRun · 30/07/2015 09:42

Lone adult, £26k. Tory

Bumpsadaisie · 30/07/2015 10:18

I earn 60k pro rata, Dh earns 40k pro rata. Both voted lib dem (as labour wouldn't have had a chance here, otherwise prob would have voted labour).

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