to suggest we take over border control in Calais!

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obviously with the agreement of the French...

From watching the news it seems the French are not very effective and/or are apathetic at border control around Calais and are unable to prevent illegal immigrants from attempting to enter the UK.

So maybe it would make sense and save money in the long run for us to go over there and take charge of the situation both sides of the Channel.

Boffinmum not sure what you mean - the current issues with 1000s trying to storm the terminal last night aren' t distressed families are they? I agree that there is an enormous range of people wishkng to settle in the UK - the demographic in Calais seems much narrower - and I have seen this for myself. The swarms of people by the roads there when I was there were all young males.

Yes dadfromuncle it is frightening. Has put me off from a day trip unless DH is also with us (although I am not quite sure what I expect him to do!)

Moreshabbythanchic: Yes, and now they are fully functioning members of society with good jobs. I do not support reliance on benefits by anyone.

Of course they are. If they came through the correct channels then there is no problem but if they stowed away illegally on lorries after threatening drivers and families going about their business then I hope you are happy to have helped them in their unlawfulness.

Besides, sorting out the migrant problem is only one part of this. The strikers on the my ferry link boats mean the Calais port isn't functioning as it should. Maybe we should try and sort out an industrial dispute while we're at it OP?

Yolofish - it's miserable isn't it? I love living here, but I feel trapped and daren't go too far. I'm sorry about your Mum. I get nervous seeing the groups of men hanging around on the roundabouts and M20.

Yes, that is what I mean. We have a bombardment of economic migrants but the confusion over immigration in general means that nobody will really take responsibility for sorting it out.

Frankly, we need more options for crossing into Europe. We're practically trapped on this island at times.

Boffinmum Given that most other options would likely end up in France, that wouldn't really help :)

"It is about reducing those peoples reasons to leave their homelands and family."

I'm no fan of Cameron, but I do agree with his commitment to spend on overseas aid. Do you seriously think that most people, given the choice, actually want to uproot themselves from their homes, their family and friends and all that they know in order to travel to northern Europe? Isn't it more likely that they much prefer to stay where they are - as long as they know that means living a decent life, providing for their families through work, and having clean water, education for their children and proper healthcare? All those things can be, should be and in fact are provided by overseas aid, properly directed and delivered, e.g by small-scale local projects (rather than funnelled through possibly corrupt governments). And, as a by-product, making those people's lives decent means they're less likely to get on a leaky boat to chance their arm in the west, in order to work here for what we would regard as a pittance to try to send some cash back home. So, in my opinion, overseas aid is a definite win-win.

Moreover, with all respect to lorry drivers crossing the Channel - and others who feel threatened by migrants gathering at Calais - the people on the move from France to the UK are in fact a tiny, tiny proportion of refugees and economic migrants across the globe. Try living in a place like Pakistan or Turkey where literally millions of people have fled (from, e.g., Afghanistan and Syria) in fear of their lives. You think those people are living in refugee camps for fun? Or that the the countries who have allowed them to set up those camps can afford to feed them without a second's thought?

Princess, I agree about overseas aid.

However, your comment about trying to live somewhere else has made me think that maybe you're not aware that the knock on effects do go across the channel?

The Kent economy is crippled, and people are barely able to get round where they live. It's been going on since June. Over five weeks. We are paying for the policing, operation stack and the loss of livelihoods and businesses. It's a tourist area. Who do you think are coming to the cafés and attractions along the Kent coast? The sums being paid out are mind boggling. I don't pretend that it's worse than any of the countries you mention, but please don't think life is normal here either.

It is unnerving to see groups of men who have made it across, walking about in this country five minutes from your house. Especially walking down the motorway - it's a road accident waiting to happen. Aren't lorry drivers fined if they bring migrants across, even unwittingly? I'd be quite nervous of that. It's a legitimate reason.

Also, I don't know why more is not made of the continuing disruption in Calais port, which is what kicked all if this off and is still contributing to it. If there weren't so many delays, there would be fewer opportunities for migrants to climb on lorries.

Anyway, I hate the language used. It's not a "migrant" crisis - it's a humanitarian crisis. It's not that they particularly want to get here per se, but they really, really don't want to be in France where they are badly treated. People are dying attempting to get on those trains. I don't know what the refugee camps are like in Turkey, but the camp in Calais is a disgrace, and France isn't looking after these people.

I genuinely don't get the problem with my suggestion. I'm not suggesting that these people are rounded up and shot or anything like that but when you have a large group charging at, and trying to overwhelm a secure police controlled area, then why shouldn't force be used? Try charging the police in the U.S. and you'll probably find yourself shot.

After last night's developments I think the tunnel now needs to be closed. I am not sure how long for but probably a month. Freight needs to shift to ferries for a while, passengers to other ports and airports. I am wondering how much the ferry infrastructure has degraded since the 1990s when the tunnel opened.

Meanwhile French and English police could clear the camps near the tunnel. Again, I am not sure how you do this but more aggressive approaches are needed before other get killed, and for what?

I'm not suggesting that these people are rounded up and shot or anything like that - Penisland

That's exactly what you said and why your post was deleted. Nobody should take you seriously.

Boffin, the infrastructure isn't there. Folkestone demolished the last remaining bits of crumbling ferry terminal last summer, and the port hasn't been used for cross channel traffic since 2000. Ramsgate is pretty much shut. Newhaven has already said it won't take anymore.

Operation stack etc for Kent is there because of reduced cross channel capacity, for whatever reason. Part of the cause is migrants and part of it is strikes. Closing the tunnel would effectively mean shutting down Kent altogether. At peak holiday season. The migrants would still be there after a month, and the economy down here ruined. Jobs aren't exactly plentiful in this corner of the extreme south East.

I mentioned upthread about the Ross Kemp documentary and someone asked for the key points.

Basically there is no country who want to spend money helping these people, who are clearly desperate and need help.
So they keep going until they reach the final point, which is the UK. Until a point that all the countries of Europe agree some kind of universal pot of money/policy, the immgrants will keep moving across all the countries until they reach the end, which is UK.

That is what I took from it, almost as if, if the immigrants are leaving the country, it is almost overlooked (for want of a better word, i am not suggesting they are overlooking it, just not encouraging them to stay) as it becomes someone elses problem. People are putting themselves in horrific situations to escape all sorts.

Just talking about the documentary, it was really good i thought.

I can't imagine the security around Heathrow or Charles De Gualle airports being allowed to be as holey and apathetic as the security around Calais.
Precisely.
The striking seamen are committing criminal offences, burning tyres on the A16 and firing flares at a ferry. This is not simply 'withdrawal of labour' or peaceful picketing. They are criminal acts and should be arrested by the French police.
They serve a useful idiots to inflame the situation and embolden the migrants to take advantage of the chaos.
The migrants should rounded up by the French and fingerprinted/IDd. Then if they do make it across the channel they can be sent back as they did not claim asylum in previous country.

Meanwhile on this side, is ridiculous that the M20 is chocked up with lorries. Why not build a lorry park OFF the motorway to funnel them into so normal traffic is not impeded. Or indeed build a separate terminal for lorries.

totally agree "Mrs"

Thanks for explaining BoffinMum - I am not usually so slow to catch on but am afraid excessive wine consumption meant that the subtleties of your post were totally lost on me

the problem is not 'border control'

the problem... is that as long as people believe their life will be better here...they will continue to come...in increasing numbers.

I am sure the majority would prefer to stay in their own homeland if their life chances were improved there. So we should assist these countries with education, technology etc.

See, carrot

Aditionally, tho, in reality we will probably need to take action to deter them from entering Europe. By force if necessary.

So, some stick

cordelia has it bang on. MrsUltra lorry parks are being discussed but no one wants them - this is a beautiful part of the world, heavily reliant on tourism but also farming, its a rural economy.

I think the French are pretty pathetic about this, but then of course the good burghers of Calais have no desire for camps of mainly young, ill-educated, black men fucking up THEIR tourism industry either so get 'em on a lorry/clinging on under a train to the land of milk and honey and jobs a good 'un from their POV.

What worries me is that SOME of these people are potentially great citizens but others are probably not quite so much. At the moment we have no idea who is coming into the country, why, what their background is etc (and I know that applies to legal migrants from other EU countries too).

Meanwhile, I have to allow over an hour for a 20 min journey this afternoon - and that's the easy part, getting there. Getting home will be much worse because they've now shut the M20 northerly as well as southbound, so the A20 will be at a standstill...

oh joy, DH just phoned to say William Harvey roundabout has ground to a complete and utter halt. I need to get to other side of it for DD1's orthodontic appt (yeah yeah, I know, 1st world problem while people are dying under trains...). We are south of this particular roundabout, he was meant to be going to Herne Bay which is north - had to turn round. So that's a job lost/delayed for his company. We'll try to get to Tescos and do the 20 min walk from there for her appt.

If our government actually grew some balls, and stopped all benefits, and housing to illegal immigrants, there wouldn't be this issue.

Our country is too attractive to them, and whilst it remains that way, they will keep coming in droves.

I don't blame them, as they are trying to better their lifes and are desperate!

Is that what illegal immigrants actually get?

Actaully puzzles me that they don't either

• apply for asylum in Italy or france, get a passport and then come here legally or
• steal a motor boat and get across the channel to somewhere less policed. Also puzzles me that people traffickers aren't organising cross channel boats - surely a doddle compared to the Mediterranean operation.