To consider dropping a friendship over one opinion?

[Hypotenuse]

My religious friends are 'anti-homosexuals'. We've been friends for years and their religion has never caused any issues, just like my atheism hasn't. I just overheard the husband saying something anti-gay to his friends recently, I wasn't even part of the discussion, and now I see them completely differently. I had no idea they felt that way.

I can't seem to get past it. Is it petty to call the friendship off?

he said something along the lines of that being gay is damaging to children because it destroys the family unit that is supposed to be a mum and dad

Just say "Jesus had two Dads and you like him though"

People use religion and the bible to justify bigoted views. It's awful. And wrong. Jesus preached tolerance and love.

It does, I'm not sure what exactly you're trying to point out. If you mean the fact I don't believe that anyone has the right to deny two adults getting married, as it's a legal contract and really has nothing to do with religion in this day and age unless you chose to get married in Church, is 'ignorant', well you go ahead and think me as such.

MrsGB, I think you're being told that it's "intolerant" not to accept homophobia as a perfectly decent personal choice for an otherwise lovely person. Like racism, or anti-Semitism, presumably, which it's equally "intolerant" to criticise.

I felt as much, but it comes round in a circle doesn't it - "well I'm not a bad person, but this book written 2000 years ago, which is full of things that don't apply logically or legally in the current world, or I pick and chose which parts to follow, just happen to be my view on this totally unacceptable thing to be prejudice against. Of course, you explain that to me and you're the ignorant on".

To be fair, I know plenty of Christians who realise that not everything in their holy book can be followed logically and have no issues what-so-ever with either homosexuality or equal marriage/adoption/child rearing. They would rather live by the teachings of Jesus to love each other and leave it at that (he was just a big hippy after all!).

They would no longer be my friends

......they're just using religion as an excuse for their own prejudice. So what's your excuse?

The wettest capital L Liberal is allowed to think that people are arseholes, that’s not prejudice. Prejudice is not allowing people the time or the space to prove that they’re an arsehole. Homophobes are arsehole because they assume that there is something wrong with gay people before giving gay people the chance to prove it.

If someone has a ‘religious objection’ to gay people then they shouldn’t sleep with anyone of the same gender. That’s fine but it's as far as their ‘religious objection’ can go before they are prejudice. Denying anyone the right to marry, form a family or any other basic human right is prejudice and I don't have to be tolerant of that.

For me it would depend on what 'anti-gay' means. I hold the bar higher for friends than say older family members (where I don't need to see them too much and won't cause a scene as long as they behave reasonably).

Actively against gay people, using hate speech etc. is 'drop like a hot potato' territory.

Waffly shite about 'oh they are free to live their lives but marriage is a man and a woman / love the sinner not the sin' I could maybe agree to disagree provided they walk the talk in their treatment of gay people.

I would find it very hard to be close friends with someone who actually thought that (but then I'm an atheist so I have a hard enough time with religion, but less judging others as a result of it).

Your friends presumably socialise in a group where making anti-gay comments is acceptable. If you drop them then they will only have friends who find their views acceptable. If you challenge them and say how their comment made you feel it then it may make them think and realise that the comments weren't acceptable, if you, whose good opinion they presumably value.

I think maybe YABU. You probably have loads of friends with opinions you disagree with. You may or may not know about them. It's fine to disagree. It's up to you to decide where your line is and, if this crosses it, so be it. But I think there would have to be more hatred involved for me to want to end a friendship than there is here. This kind of comment I would argue over but it wouldn't be a deal breaker.

But then I'm a Christian who thinks anybody should be able to get married, live together or have consensual sex and who thinks lifestyle choice doesn't affect faith.

I'm also a politically liberal/labour person teaching in a very traditional private school.

So, I have lots of friends with lots of opinions I find hard to stomach on occasion. I probably wouldn't make them close friends. But I get on with them fine.

I agree with manic even though I'm an atheist Tory I am socially liberal.

A difference of opinion like this even if one thinks it is a bigoted opinion - and I do - has nothing to do with friendship. Friendship has to do with how friends treat each other. You don't have to agree with or like everything your friends think, and vice versa.

I think Christians should be judged on their actions and not their beliefs. The mainstream Christian teaching is that the act of sex is for a lifetime male/female relationship.All other sexual acts are outside of this. Therefore if Christians because of this hate all gays, they also hate everyone else who is having sex outside marriage. That is simply not true. My 12 year old daughter came home from secondary school the other day and said that she was shocked at how many of her school friends and their parents held racist,bigoted and anti gay opinions. She said that she had told them that whilst her parents did not approve of sex outside marriage, they would always be loving and caring towards anyone who held different views to that. I was so glad she understood that we can hold a view, because of our faith, but we still treat everyone we meet with care and compassion, because of our faith. I don't understand why people cannot get that and why Christians are always accused of hating gay people. I know alot of Christians and have never met one who hates gay people. Most of the Christians I know have someone in their close friendship or family group who is gay.

So they are anti-same sex couples having children, specifically, rather than just blanket 'anti gay'? If this guy was expressing that view in a measured way, I wouldn't necessarily end a friendship over it, although it would damage the friendship for me. If he was using hate-language or aggressive speech to express that opinion I probably couldn't be friends with him any more, no.

Yes, okay to dump! asap! But first you'd maybe want to explain why - in the name of public education?

I would. It's a pretty big issue ultimately. I have a good friend who I disagree with on so many things it often amazes me that we're friends at all. He's also significantly more conservative (small c) than me. However, he's not a bigot and would never discriminate against someone because of their race or sexual orientation.

that's a fair point riverboat I have a married gay friend who doesn't think it's right for same sex couples to have children. I suppose he can't really be homophobic as a homosexual, can he!

I did once challenge someone over this- and was prepared to lose the friendship over it. Fortunately, I had misconstrued him (I was about to move to a new area, he had grown up there and when we were discussing same sex marriage he'd said something like "you'll see a difference discussing that when you move to x"- he just meant be prepared for lots of very anti-gay statements/arguments, not "you'll soon change your mind". It was meant to be a friendly heads up).

So if there is any doubt, I'd directly challenge the remarks. And if you were right, well, the wedge has already been driven in hasn't it.

I wouldn't be friends with a racist. Full stop.
Hate speech against an individual or group, whether gay people or those on low income, would also end a friendship immediately.

Subject to that, I've friends with very different views to mine and I just accept them as they are, as they accept me.

I'm an agnostic pro-choice feminist, but I have several Christian friends, one very close, plus a few Moslem, Hindu and Buddhist ones. All are pretty tolerant, but I suspect most have some different views to me on abortion and / or gay rights. We have never discussed these topics other than fleeting asides - an unspoken agreement so we can remain friends.

I have some moderate Conservative friends, who genuinely think their way would avoid a sudden collapse of the welfare state and / or help the less fortunate.

We disagree, but we can have a civilised debate and not get angry. I'm more "elsewhere" than straight left / right, anyway.
So, politics is less sensitive than religion, in my experience.

None of my friends are far right / left sociopath type. Or religious nuts.
So mutual tolerance works for us.

but people's opinions can change over time when exposed to different viewpoints. I think we sometimes forget how quickly attitudes to homosexuality have changed across society. 30 years ago most people, religious or not, would have held views similar to your friend. I am ok with same sex couples having children, but I probably only came to this view about 7-8 years ago. People who identify as Christians tend in my experience to be more socially conservative than athiests, but most Christians outside fundamentalist circles these days are generally relaxed about homosexuality.

Although I disagree with your friend's view, I wouldn't call it homophobic as such. I think the irony of their own intolerance can sometimes be lost on liberals!

that's a fair point riverboat I have a married gay friend who doesn't think it's right for same sex couples to have children

That made me remember a gay Irish man in their recent referendum campaign make a pretty decent, and definitely not homophobic, argument against gay marriage.... I say this as someone who supports gay marriage.

I think that social views are changing so fast wrt homosexuality that it may be that some people are behind the curve. Remember How it was 10 years ago - gay used as insult continuously, TV like queer eye for the straight guy, that sitcom about a girl and a gay guy as flat mates - really regressive stereotypes were still the norm, fewer people were out at work no one was out at school, section 28 being debated, public opinion against gay marriage to the extent it was not on the agenda... But people changed -- homophobes reformed. The climate is so so different today. And your friends might change too. Id debate but not disengage without a fight.

I wouldn't necessarily ditch the friend but I'd make it clear I don't want to be party to any discriminatory speech and perhaps keep a pleasant distance. We have to learn to get on with all types of people and how can we grow, develop and change opinions if we only ever mix with people who have identical views on the world.

homophobes reformed.

If we went back to 1980, I'd say 90%+ of people would be classed as homophobes by today's standards, even people at the more progressive end of the spectrum!

Friend or acquaintance? Friends, no I would t drop. I would drop an acquaintance.

Gay people had to fight for their rights the same way as every minority. A real friend should have similar mindset to yours, there are certain standards in modern society that should not be questioned. Gay people having family is also fine for me as long as they want to create stability for children.

There are certain actions and behaviours that for me are incompatible with friendship

These are racism, homophobia,domestic abuse, avoiding CM, disablisum, if that makes me intollerant then I'm happy to be so. Rather that then collude with shite like any of the above