Do you classify or label people by their name?

[manicinsomniac]

And does it often turn out to be correct?

I have a shameful addiction to the baby names forum.

Recently I have noticed my oldest daughter's name getting rather a slamming. It has come up in the past and it has generally been agreed on as 'chavvy'. Recently is has been called 'truly awful' 'dreadful' and 'just no'.

Her name is Savannah. The names Susannah, Samantha, Sophia and Sylvia however, are almost always received positively. These names, especially the first two, are very similar. So what is it that makes Savannah 'truly awful'? I can only assume that people are basing their liking of the name on what they assume its owner or her parent/s to be like, rather than the actual sound of the name.

I've also seen that people 'hate' the names Charlize and Charmaine but really like Charlotte. That they think Jayden is an awful name but like Aiden and Hayden. Isabella and Annabella are lovely but Arabella is ridiculous.

Am I unreasonable to think that people pretend not to like names when the truth is that they just have a particular association with a name that they wouldn't want for their child? And, if so, do those associations bear out in real life? I'm getting worried that I've saddled my child with a name that will cause people to roll their eyes before they've even met her. Especially as comment about my other two daughters names tend to sum up as 'nice but dull' and 'nice but posh' as oppose to 'god-awful!'

I read an interesting blog post a while ago (sorry I don't have a link) which said that judging 'made up' names could be seen to be racist.

It's probably more true in the USA, where Black Americans didn't want to use traditional 'white' names as their slave ancestors were given that type of name by their white owners, but didn't want to use traditional African names as they didn't know where in Africa their ancestors came from.

To solve this dilemma, the blog said many Black Americans made up names by stringing together syllables they liked the sound of, or spelling meaningful words backwards.

Therefore, sneering at made-up, non-traditional names is racist because it's more likely to be black people with such names.

I found the blog thought provoking.

I used to know a Savannah, she was a lovely girl. I expect she's about 14 now, she was friends with one of mine until they went to different schools a few years ago.

There's a lot of racism on the bay name thread, I go on there and point it out, occasionally.

Well, I go on to see if it's getting better and it generally isn't.

The lack of knowledge and the branding of non-English names/spellings, as "made-up", is astounding.

I do wonder why you'd ask people, their opinion, who seem to know and have experienced very little.

I was the only girl with my name in a school of 500 in the 80s.
Today it's one of the most popular names in the UK.
I was slagged for having a "posh" name as a child surrounded by Karens and Jennifers and Carolines.
Do I judge names myself? I suppose I do internally wince at some parents' choices. Particularly when they sound atrocious with their surname.
My DC has an Irish name constantly misspelled in England. It's actually the Anglicised version of the Irish name which has been butchered for some reason again into an "English" version when there was really no need to fuck around with the spelling!

I have a LUDICROUS stripper name (very popular in America in the 70's but basically it is a Valley Girl name) which I always felt would have been an issue in certain jobs (like Judge or PM) and certainly has been an oddity in boarding-school-educated sort of background. As a consequence I have been adamant that my girls should have names that would carry them anywhere.

But.... My youngest has an unusual name (though I wanted a 'proper' name so it has classical origins, it's not a made up name as it were) and just after we'd named her I saw a rather unwashed Occupy protester on the news with the same name expressing very left wing opinions. I instantly thought "yes darling, I'm sure you're truly speaking for the Proletariat with that name..." And then brought myself up... Oh god! I've done the same thing as my parents did to my daughter! She won't have a problem as a judge but she'd be held back in that particular field just as poor old Tristram Hunt is as a future Labour leader. Tristram. Not going to work is it?

So I think you DO get an impression of a person's parents from their name. How can you not?

ps the only little Savannah I know of is from a super traditional upper middle class family - the sort we'd have called "Sloaney" in the 80's.

Savannah makes me think of Erasure.

"So I think you DO get an impression of a person's parents from their name. How can you not?""

By meeting lots of different people, from all walks of life and realising that you really can't ever make a correct assumption and pre judge someone.

Or rather, expanding your thinking ability.

I think Eliza is a bit Disney (I know it's not)

People may judge but they will most lilkely judge it differently! It's like asking someone what makes you attractive. One of mine has an old fashioned name where most people love it and think it's cute, some people think it's posh and others tell me it was their old cockney's cleaners name from the 1950s!

Also, people on baby naming forums are obviously very sensitive to and obsessed by names. Hence their addiction to them so I'd take their sneers with a pinch of salt. Savannah is not a naff name but it is growing in popularity. I think baby name addicts get rattled when hipster/unusual names are adopted by less consummately 'educated' families and then decide they are beyond the pale.

Suspect the unisex trend and place name trend that was all the rage in Brooklyn (Brooklyn!) has gone more mainstream and thus, from Baby Namers' perspective (a perspective mostly obsessed with the unusual and just-quirky-enough) has that "lilies that fester smell far worse than weeds" thing going on.

Have a look on Nameberry for a rather more supportive take on it. It is rarely bitchy over there and it offers a view of how the Americans are viewing that name. I bet it is just plain popular there.

It's an interesting question.
I am not keen on the name Savannah. I've got no reason for this. No association or anything. It's just not a name I would choose.
But I don't make any assumptions about your daughter or you- other than you probably have slightly different taste from me. It seems bizarre to gave such a strong opinion of someone else's name when in reality it doesn't really matter and it doesn't mean anything!

Hi Birdsgottafly - I wasn't saying I'd prejudge that person, just that you'd have an impression of their background because of their parents' choice of name. And that in some walks of life that is a disadvantage - e.g. left wing politics where you don't want to be saddled with a name which speaks of a privileged beginning.

Savannah - not a real name and thus non-u. But then what is? Aren't they all products of their time and culture? It is slightly arriviste but I imagine Victoria was at some point.

I used to work with 2 girls years ago who had unusual (but lovely) names but they both absolutely hated them. When I was pregnant with my daughter they both advised me to call her a 'normal' name so she wouldn't have to go through life being asked 'how do you spell that?' every time she made an appointment for something etc

I decided to give her a classic name and an unusual one (the same as one of these girls) as her middle name, thinking she could reverse them in the future if she wanted - she's now in her 20s, loves her (boring) first name and hates the middle one with a vengeance so my friends were right!

Oh! Yes... just remembered Sienna Miller's sister's name is Savannah. Two place names in one sib group. They wear those names beautifully.

Savannah is a lovely strong name.

Ignore the baby names bored, take it with a tiny pinch of salt.

Nope never judge a person on a name. Besides, unless you have changed it by deed poll, no one has any say in what they have been called.
All I do groan over is unusual spellings. That's from working in a call centre when people expect us the know how to spell all the names they tell us. Also as someone who has gone from a perfectly ordinary English maiden name to an unusual foreign one, it's so blooming annoying always having to spell it out. X

IMO of course you judge people by their name, or rather, you judge their parents and their aspirations at the time. If you don't, then others will, it's quite inevitable. People are judged by their clothes/makeup/hair/car/whatever. I think it's well-meaning but naive to think the contrary... isnt'it why people agonise over picking names for their children or get very precious about it? It carries a lot of baggage, of emotions, aspirations.
Let's be honest, a name is , with looks, our first contact with someone often...
I filled a little book full of rare/ridiculous/bohemian names when I was a teenager.... my boys ended up with classic names and I'm glad my DP had a reasonable influence on me...

Totally agree with fuzzyWizard, considering how multicultural MN likes to consider itself, the names board is very white english in its preferences. I know of a few Precious, Patiences and similar like names who have gotten places to read medicine at uni.

At a few toddler groups, you can really see the responses to some of the names called out, which I find such a pity. It is really boring to see and hear the same old names again and again and again, all very localised. Move somewhere else, such as country and the names are all very different.

I am yet to meet a nice down to earth real Katie, yet always meet really pleasant Catherines. Odd.

DD1 has a made up name. DD2 has (I think) a very nice name, but was a bit unfortunate that she shares it with a woman who was often in the papers either shagging footballers or showing various body parts to the world... though if that's what she wants to do .... but I have worried that it might lead to teasing for DD2. Hasn't so far (not many 8yos read NOTW it seems )

DP and I both are professionals. We probably should have called the girls Alice and Charlotte or something similar. But we didn't want to, why should we?

TBH, I think people who judge anyone by their name is shallow in the extreme. Fashions change, cultures have different traditions... people should just get over themselves.

From the other perspective. I grew up with a girl called Karen, one of about 4 Karen's in our year alone.
She hated her name. Soon as she was old enough she changed her name by deed poll to Tinkerbell nn Tink. Tbh now I can't imagine calling her anything else except Tink. It's her name. It suits her better than Karen! She's a very successful business woman with three boys (Milo, Otis and Jed if I remember correctly!) and her name doesn't seem to hold her back too much.

I normally like traditional names, the sort that could just as easily be a royal as the girl/boy next door type. My children have names like this. Seem to shock professionals who say how lovely the names are, or "how well" I named them or something else like that. I think because, I've had my 2 DC, in my early 20's and it is generally expected that moms my age use "chav" names.

I hate chavvy names like; kelan, kai, kayden, kendra, kiki, aiden and hayden, petal, princess, leah-something, kelly-ann - where i was brought up these are the chavvy names - however different areas have different names which are popular amongst chavs.

Generally im not keen on names that are also words or places yet I really like Savannah, it sounds warm, kind, lively, beautiful and "sassy". I imagine a beautiful, smart, independant woman. And no I'm not just saying that because you started a thread on it.

Names do conjure images in a persons mind. Whether it's because of class associations or because of experiences of other people with that name - I used to hate the name Samantha because I knew 3 very nasty, bitchy, chavvy Samantha's in my year at school. They were also quite " blond bimbo" types. Yet my view of the name changed when I worked with a Samantha, who was the nicest, sweetest person you could meet, who was totally unbothered by looks and certainly not chavvy or a bimbo. Then my sister in law is a Samantha, who again is lovely. I now like the name Samantha and it has good connotations in my mind.