to think that 'it's what they do in Europe' should be excluded for all arguments and discussions.

[Pipbin]

So far in the last few days I have read threads where people have stated that in Europe they:

• have a much better attitude to renting and therefore it is more common to rent and the need to own property is a very British thing.
• that hitting another car when parking in perfectly normal in Europe and everyone accepts it and the British are just too uptight.

In previous threads I have also read that:

• in Europe they don't start school until they are 7 and they have the better maths and literacy results.
• children in Europe all have a glass of wine with their meals and are allowed to do as they please in restaurants.

Now I'm not denying that any of this is true but I am fed up with 'in Europe' being brought up as an argument.
Europe is not some magical mystical land, it is not one county, it is a group of different countries and cultures that includes our own.

Saying that in Europe they tend to rent doesn't help someone who wants to own their home and the attitude in this country isn't going to change quickly (mores the pity in my opinion).
Saying 'but it's what everyone does in Europe' doesn't help someone whose car has been damaged by someone who can't park.

It is a lazy argument and I think that like Godwin's Law we should name it.

I remember Picking being shown a Scandinavian school as an ideal of education - and I agree it was lovely. No class room, all age groups working together, lots of outdoor education no matter what the weather.
They failed to mention that it was a selective school with about 20 pupils.
They didn't like it when I pointed out that many parent struggle to afford basic school clothes - let alone the complete change of clothes, including shoes, that they suggested each child has.

" They failed to mention that it was a selective school with about 20 pupils."

no surprises there then.
Honestly one does wonder, if UK education is so 'behind' Europe, why so many are flocking here for the university education!

some bugger will come back with 'of course in Europe they allow their children to smoke and drink from the age of three while all sitting around naked and they don't start school until half an hour before their exams but still get better results than us'.

YANBU, OP.

I think I probably do this! (Not in relation to renting/buying though because I can see how annoying it would be)

But in relation to other things, well I consider myself European and so if I'm giving advice/discussing a thing then I'll talk about it from my own experience and that of people know.

Why is it Scandinavia has very low immigration? I've often wondered about this, particularly the nations in the eu.

*In this country. Sorry

Coz they will not let anybody in. No room at the inn. And it really does cost a fortune to live there and their welfare system is built around people already working so you can't just turn up and be housed and fed (I'm not saying you can here but we are rather welcoming to non Brits as a rule.)

But are they not held to the same rules that we are? Are countries allowed to have welfare for only paying in members, or do they have to be equal to all eu residents?

I am English, living in "Europe."

I too hate the renting thing that is bandied about. Not least because it is not true in my part of Europe. Also, although I rent, my LL has barely a hope in hell of turfing us out when the mood takes her. We have proper rent controls. Which is different to Britain. So that argument makes me really cross.

Also, the car thing, it bloody wasn't "what they do in Europe" when I accidentally shunted someone last year, I (justifiably) felt the full wrath of her insurance company!

And my DS will start school next September aged 3. but gets free university education if we are still here

Lazy, non argument, YANBU! Of course it is interesting to compare, but you can't pick and choose elements of another culture whilst conveniently ignoring the ones that don't back up your own agenda.

As of 2010, 1.33 million people or 14.3% of the inhabitants in Sweden were foreign-born. Of these, 859,000 (64.6%) were born outside the European Union and 477,000 (35.4%) were born in another EU member state.[2] Sweden has been transformed from a nation of net emigration ending after World War I to a nation of net immigration from World War II onward. In 2013, immigration reached its highest level since records began with 115,845 people migrating to Sweden while the total population grew by 88,971.[3]

81,300 applied for asylum in 2014, which was an increase of 50% compared to 2013, and the most since 1992. 47% of them come from Syria, followed by 21% from the horn of Africa (mostly Eritrea and Somalia). 77% (63,000) requests were approved but it differs greatly between different groups. The main scenario is that 80,000 will apply for asylum in 2015.

From Wikipedia - doesn't sound like low immigration to me...

Recently, someone who lives in Sweden phoned into a talk show re. education. Saying that the standard "Swedish education is so much better than uk education" is largely a myth now. Immigration has so changed the population, especially in bigger cities, that education/schools have changed a lot and are no longer the utopian ideal of 10/20 years ago.

"It is a lazy argument and I think that like Godwin's Law we should name it." I agree, OP. I heard someone refer to the "they're-all-so-much-nicer-over-there syndrome", which I thought was a start, though maybe not quite what is needed.

It is ridiculous to refer to Europe as if all 26 countries had the same laws and culture. There's a US website I visit where commenters are forever saying "I'm from Europe" and "I'm in Europe", as if they thought Americans would be confused by the mention of Britain or Ireland or the Netherlands.

That's interesting. It used to have low immigration because it would only let people with a degree in, I'm positive.

poppy in Spain, you can only access parts of the welfare when you've paid in. So you can't have healthcare unless you (or your husband/parent) is paying tax. And your unemployment benefit amount and time it is paid for is calculated on how much tax you've paid, higher earners, more tax, more dole.

Bit shit if you're 18 and can't get a job - like 50% of people in the South, but quit good for people temporarily needing benefits.

I think as long as the rule is the same for the locals and the immigrants you can have different rules.. ish.

I'm from 'Europe' (well, Holland) but live in the UK, and I agree with the OP. There's no problem with pointing out that looking at the solutions used in other places might be a good idea - sometimes the UK does get a bit insular in its thinking (the politicians more than the people, to be fair). However, what the OP refers to is what I call 'magic bullet' thinking - the idea that if only we did it the way X country does it, all our problems would go away.

I wouldn't be living here in the UK if I didn't think it was a pretty good place to live where a lot of things are done pretty well.

Thank you picking, bagel and zorion its good to get more information about the landscape for our neighbours as it were.

YANBU,

Both the lazy way in which it implies we're not in Europe and the treatment of the rest of the continent as a homogeneous mass.

Even worse when people talk about in Scandinavia, not least as it puts my Danish OH in full on rant mode!

This reminds me of my Geography teachers' responses to "In Africa..." It seems to me to be bordering on xenophobic to suggest that any continent has just one culture, but I'll settle for really lazy.

It irritates me just as much when people say we're not in Europe? How exactly are we not in Europe?

" How exactly are we not in Europe? "

have a look at the map if it is not clear.
YOu see that little strip of blue between France and UK?

Culturally we are not 'in europe'.
Geographically we are not 'in Europe'
Financially we are not in 'Europe'.
Perhaps someone could explain how, exactly, we are 'in europe'?

Damascus
No sun, no Euro, no one speaks anything but English.

" No sun, no Euro, no one speaks anything but English."

obviously there is sun here, do not be silly.
And yes people do speak other languages than English.
Most older people in my village are bilingual.
Work that one out.

That's funny Coffee - that little line of blue makes us not part of Europe, in the same way that Japan isn't in Asia right?

Geographically, we are very much 'in Europe' - continental plate anyone, climate, etc
Culturally, we are very much 'in Europe' - Hans Holbein anyone?
Financially, we are 'in Europe' - Did you miss the bit about the UK being a member of the EU?

Oh ffs really? So are the British Isles a mini-continent?

By that logic Japan is not in Asia.

Financially the UK is not part of the Euro but unless you laft the EU this morning I would say the UK is very much part of Europe financially, at least the parts that are in the EU.