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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Should I complain, or am I over reacting?

58 replies

TheAssassinsGuild · 25/07/2015 18:18

Perfectly happy to be told IABU!

DH went with DD to one of our local synagogues this morning. I wasn't there, so this next bit is as reported to me by DH. Towards the end of the service, the Rabbi picked up DD (4.5) and made like he was going to throw her over the side of the elevated part of the synagogue he was standing on, by dipping her down - probably about a 4 ft drop. He put her down and DH retrieved her. She was upset, tearful, subdued and said her armpit hurt. It happened so quickly that DH didn't get a chance to stop him.

I am livid and want to write a firmly worded email telling him that he upset and hurt DD and to keep his hands off her. Disclaimer: I cannot abide this Rabbi, so I tend to take a very negative view of his behaviour (DH can't stand him either). DH thinks I should leave it. MN jury - am I over reacting?

OP posts:
DameMargaretOfChalfont · 25/07/2015 18:47

Your DH needs to ask himself a question - "Am I A Father first or a Jew first?"

His response to the incident (ie doing nothing) tells me that he is a Jew first - and by this I mean that his upbringing in the faith has prevented him from challenging the actions of a Rabbi. This can be quite common across many faiths.

Next time (if there is a next time) DH needs to be a father first and challenge ANYONE who is behaving inappropriately towards his child.

Sorry OP but the time for complaining was at the moment of the event - your DH needs to be a father first and sort himself out.

Tinkypoooooooo · 25/07/2015 18:48

you are not overreacting but i dont know what a complaint would really do, who would you complain to?

4EverScottish · 25/07/2015 18:51

I would absolutely complain, maybe he was having fun but to a child that could have been a very frightening threat.

Original poster
TheAssassinsGuild · 25/07/2015 18:55

Dame - er no. DH says he didn't complain because he didn't see it as a massively big deal and that he was busy comforting and cheering up DD. I suspect it was also because he can't stand the Rabbi and didn't want to talk to him. He is not a 'Jew first'. He is not cowed by the status of him as Rabbi. I agree DH needs to man up in such circumstances, but this is nothing to do with him being in the thrall of religious authority. That really is a step of interpretation too far.

OP posts:
YeOldeTrout · 25/07/2015 19:00

The girl made it clear she was distressed. The point has been made. Anything more sounds like your personal grudge.

DameMargaretOfChalfont · 25/07/2015 19:01

Sorry OP - But in your own words he can't stand the Rabbi and didn't want to talk to him does imply that DH didn't put your DD first. He cowed to his own feelings that he didn't want to address the issue/speak to the Rabbi.

DD isn't hurt which is the main thing - complaining makes DH out to be more ineffectual as you're the one doing the complaining despite you not being there at the time.

I agree with Imposter who said to address the issue face to face when you next meet.

MyraForum · 25/07/2015 19:09

Is there a safeguarding policy?

Our church one for touch is that leaders (employed or volunteer) should touch children only when it is age-appropriate, child-initiated, and in public.

I would absolutely be complaining, that is an abuse of power and shouldn't be happening.

Original poster
TheAssassinsGuild · 25/07/2015 19:13

Dame - I agree that he didn't put her first in the way that I would have (although by focussing on comforting her, he was putting her first). I just objected to your interpretation that DH is a Jew first and a father second.

OP posts:
Lavenderice · 25/07/2015 19:19

You are already teaching your daughter that she is a second class citizen and that men have power over her. Maybe he was just illustrating that fact.

Original poster
TheAssassinsGuild · 25/07/2015 19:26

Lavender - is that a serious suggestion? That was asserting his male dominance over her to whip her into line and get her used to her subservient lot in life? Really???

And by the way, you have no idea about the gender dynamics in the synagogue, nor which branch of Judaism it is part of.

OP posts:
IceBeing · 25/07/2015 19:30

hmm if it hadn't been a religious leader that did this....say it was just a random bloke off the street that did this while in his place of employment, your DH would have complained...you would complain - you would complain to the employer too.

So is the only reason people are saying not to, the religious angle? If so then I start to understand how the whole catholic abuse business came about.

YouTheCat · 25/07/2015 19:32

If your dh didn't complain at the time because he didn't think it was a massive deal, then go with that as he was there.

I'm pretty sure various adults have upset me over the years as I was growing up. People would have thought my parents a bit batty to have complained.

The correct response for your dh in future is 'please don't do that, Rabbi, as dd doesn't like it'.

Original poster
TheAssassinsGuild · 25/07/2015 19:40

Ice - I don't think anyone's reasons for saying don't complain have been because he is a Rabbi and therefore somehow should not be challenged.

OP posts:
Lavenderice · 25/07/2015 19:41

No, that was a flippant suggestion and for that I apologise. However I have a quite a few ideas about gender dynamics in Synagogues thank you very much, but it boils down to equality for me and when Mirvis banned women from reading the Torah it screamed second class citizen.

itsmeitscathy · 25/07/2015 19:42

sorry if I sound ridiculous, but you said this was towards tje end of the service. I have never been to a Jewish service but am I right in taking this to mean it was wheb the Rabbi was speaking to the entire congregation? in which case I get why you'd Dh didn't tell him he was out of order. it would have been inappropriate. a quiet word to ask him not to do it again seems wise.

it just sounds odd to be honest and tje total wrong place and time to mess about.

ducky (I think), really? so anything that happens to your child within religion no matter how terrible is deserved because you disagree with the faith? how do you cope in the real world where we are all entitled to our options?

IceBeing · 25/07/2015 19:43

op so you would be fine with any other man who doesn't actually know your daughter doing this then? Confused

Janeymoo50 · 25/07/2015 19:46

Tricky one, I kind of thing the fact you dislike the Man has made the matter 10 times worse, quite understandable of course. I guess you have to seriously think did he mean it or just an "accident" as such. Hope your DD is ok.

Original poster
TheAssassinsGuild · 25/07/2015 19:48

Lavender - sorry I just get annoyed when the only thing people say is about gender and how we are indoctrinated and second class. Yes, Mirvis was not at all great about that. Not every Rabbi, even within Orthodoxy, takes that view at all. For what it's worth, I will teach DD to be very robust about such matters, but this is her culture and her heritage and it is important that she learns about it and participates in it. And that includes going to shul.

OP posts:
PrincessTheresaofLiechtenstein · 25/07/2015 19:50

I was slapped by a priest at that age, for something I hadn't done. My parents weren't that impressed in private but made no attempt to show their displeasure, remove me from contact with him or anything else. Spoke volumes to me about what was more important, upsetting the church or upsetting me.

I realise this rabbi wasn't intending to hurt your daughter but a quick "she doesn't like that, please don't pick her up again" is a completely reasonable response whether you like that person or not.

Original poster
TheAssassinsGuild · 25/07/2015 20:01

Ice - no I am not OK about it. I have not said anywhere that I am. In my OP I said what had happened and that I wanted to complain. I asked if I was BU in part id it was an over reaction, and in part because I cannot stand the Rabbi and that this may be colouring my view. Various posters have said, yes complaining would be OTT (none of them have cited the religious dimension). Others have said a complaint is warranted.

This is only 'religious' because this is the context in which it happened. The Rabbi does know DH, DD and me - so it is not equivalent to a random stranger grabbing her. If the context had been different, say in a favourite restaurant, and a disliked but well known to use waiter had done the same to DD, I would also be posting her and asking if a complaint was OTT or if it was in order.

OP posts:
bigbumtheory · 25/07/2015 20:58

I would go with what Impostersyndrome and Princess say. No letter, too OTT, but telling him and telling DD that if anyone upsets her should say to you or her dad.

alicemalice · 25/07/2015 21:04

I think it's an overreaction. You say neither of you like him and surely that's a factor in your reaction to this small incident.

mindthegap79 · 25/07/2015 21:10

I wouldn't complain in writing as I think it'd be OTT. However I would mention it next time you see him, and explain that it upset your dd, please don't do it again etc. Definitely talk to dd as you're planning to and explain to her that dad wishes he'd said something at the time.

That's what I would do.

morelikeguidelines · 25/07/2015 21:14

Sounds to me like he was trying to play and misjudged, but meant well. Could be wrong as I wasn't there.

Does he have children?

BeaufortBelle · 25/07/2015 21:16

I think it's a professional boundaries or H&S issue. I'd approach it kindly from that perspective because next time it could go badly wrong - child dropped/bruised/visibly upset because he or she is neuro atypical. Is there a children's worker or link with a local Jewish school you could approach from a positive point of view to ensure there is repetition that might affect a more vulnerable and potentially less supported child more than it affected your daughter.

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