To have stepped in to try and help DD

[Sissyinthesummertime]

Please help me get some perspective.

DD is 11, and will be starting Y7 in September. All in all she has had a good Y6. She was bullied in earlier years, but came into her own in Y6 and made some good friends, started going to parties (had never been invited before). Of course she was happy, so so was I.

The last few weeks of term have seen some girls she thought were her friends turn against her. Low level stuff I.e not inviting her out, buying each leaving presents and not including her. She seemed to shrug it off quite well, saying she wasn't bothered. Only 1 of these children will be in high school with her.

However, at an outside activity thru do, they've turned quite nasty. Picking on her, winding her up until she retaliates. She was very upset after this activity. Also, they were all going to a sleepover after this and were rubbing it in. It was heartbreaking to leave with DD watching them all drive off.

Now they've all blocked her on Instagram (the dreaded social media). She also found out that one girl has set up a message for the whole class to remember their last week. DD isn't included.

To top it off, she does an activity that she loves. It will help her with what she thinks she might want to be when she's older (I appreciate that this can change!). We put her name down and waited on the waiting list for over a year. Her friends joined her at this activity and all was going well. Now based on what's happened she wants to drop out as she's too afraid to go.

Thanks if you've managed to get this far!

At this point I decided enough was enough. DD will not be pushed out of this activity/club. She loves it.

So I know the mums of these children. Yesterday I sent them a message to ask if they could see what had happened. Non accusatory and fully accepting that DD could in some way also be at fault. I realise she isn't perfect.

One mother replied saying as far as she thought it was DD picking on all of them and she wouldn't do anything more. Radio silence from the others, although I know they've received the message.

To the point - am I mad for stepping in? Should I let them fight their own battles? I just don't want to be 'that mother'. The mum that replied insinuated that she doesn't get involved in children's affairs. I think this is all well and good when your child has the friends on her side. Safety in numbers and all that.

What should I have done? What would you have done? I haven't slept all night for worrying about this. Such a way to start the holiday.

OP l had this at the end of y6. I went to orientation day and had not one friend in my form as non of them had listed me. They then excluded me for the last 4 or so weeks of school.

I remember spending one break sitting at my desk crying because it had all become too much.

I absolutely excelled at high school. I had no friends to hold me back so to speak and got to know everyone in my class and finally found 'my group'.

I know this sounds pretentious but l fell in with the popular crowd and was invited to all the parties etc.

But most importantly for me, it taught me not to rely on others. To make my own opportunities, do what l want etc. It probably sounds selfish and lots would disagree but l have a fab life and l put it down to my awful transition to HS.

Can l say those bitches did me a favour will get slaughtered for the comment

Honestly, just talking to DH and if I received such a message, I would come down on DD like a ton of bricks.

But you HAVE received that message. You said yourself that another mum replied to you saying that your DD had been picking on the other children. So have you come down on her "like a ton of bricks"? Or are you just still blaming the other children.

I agree that the other children's behaviour doesn't sound very nice, but there are indications in your post (including in the other mother's message!) that there might be two sides to this story and it sounds very much like you are only hearing your daughter's side. And the fact that you say "The thing is. I'm not sure she has annoying habits! " really suggests that there is only one-side to this that you are willing to consider. (Everyone has annoying habits!)

That's all well and good if you see your role as just being to support your daughter, but if you actually want to solve the issue (which is what you seem to want to do to) then you might also need to deal with the idea that maybe your DD actually has been picking on other children too.

The silence form the other mums also suggests to me that there are two sides to this - if the issue was as simple and as clear-cut as you make it sound, they would reply. The fact that they haven't suggests that either they see this as six of one and half a dozen of the other, or they think there's no point talking to you about it as you are only going to see your DD's side.

Sorry if that sounds harsh. But to me it would be odd if ALL the children chose to exclude one specific one without there being some other issue.

I was bullied in grade 7 and then again in high school in grade 8 by some of the same girls (in Canada). I think she is best to make new friends as these girls are likely taking their insecurities out on her for some reason. It's horrible and mean but I don't think they will change.

Anon I don't disagree that they may well be more than just one sided - but equally it may not.
I would say my DD can be annoying, loud. She was the youngest (over a year -in Scotland and one of the meanest bullies had deferred). I can see why she would be picked on -speaks her mind, wants thing her way, what you see is what you get. She also wouldn't join in with pack mentality nastiness, really didn't get that some people can take pleasure, think it is funny, being cruel to others. That doesn't mean she deserved what happened to her.

When my DD was being bullied at a slightly younger age she would tell me she had no-one to play with (this was just after her best friend had left).
The loud, popular girls would ask her to play with them - then each of them would say they needed to go to the loo. DD would wait for them to come back and eventually would go and look for them. She would find them hiding from her and laughing. She would ask them why they had asked her to play, why they were hiding etc - which they thought was even funnier. And they would do it again the next day - and she would do the same. I told her to tell them she didn't want to play with them, ignore them but she said then she had no-one to play with at all . But in fact there were 3-4 other girls she could have played with, like I said a couple are now her friends. They were quiet, shy, low profile ones who didn't get involved with the pack bullying. But to DD it was ALL the girls - I am sure it felt like that to her. (And yes I did tell her to play with the nice ones but she was too shy to approach them and they were too shy to approach her).
She said to me a few years ago she never wanted to be popular - because as far as she could see you became popular by being mean
(I will say she was in a particular bad group - with a couple of really nasty characters. At secondary she has come across girls who are popular AND nice -just that wasn't true of her primary class.)

I would leave it now, there's nothing to be gained if they are not going to her high school anyway. As for the club, I think it's up to your dd if she wants to go, afterschool activities are supposed to be fun, and this sounds like it might be a nightmare for her, so perhaps she could look at different activities (I get what you are saying, but she won't not get into the armed forces if she doesn't go to cadets, will she?)

I have found both my girls have had to deal with excluding/friendship issues since Year 3 really. One is like your dd, if pushed, she will push back and this tends to lead to active fall-outs and she is sometimes excluded by silly things like 'you can't come and stand in the line with us'. The other is more avoidant and doesn't pick sides, and keeps herself to herself but has taken a long time to find any good friends amidst the ongoing battles.

I have no idea why girls are like this but it's awful. I don't believe in interfering myself though, unless I thought bad bullying was taking place. They will have to go to high school and it may well be the same there, and they have to learn techniques- avoiding people, becoming a better judge of character, weighing up the pros and cons of being in a popular group vs bitchiness, finding other people in a similar situation.

I would also take her off Instagram if she doesn't have great friends at the mo, I let mine text their good friends on a one to one, but not go in groups on social media just yet (age 11).

My dd has just left y6 and it's been horrible. Girls who have been friends for years turning against each other, petty feuds, loads of upset. They've always been silly and volatile but usually have made up fairly quickly - these arguments seem to have become terminal, and my dd is definitely a lot more unforgiving and unyielding than in the past. She just wants to hang out with the two girls she was closest to in the last half-term this summer, and catch up with a few family friends. She may well change her mind but at the moment they all need a break from each other.

I'm listening to what she says, and in your situation I would start with that - your dd doesn't want to do cadets with these girls. Thinking about her future career plans is a lot less important than protecting her now. There will be plenty of time to do cadets, DoE etc at secondary.

Have to say I don't think the school has been great. Apparently these kinds of upsets happen every year so you'd think they would have some kind of strategy in place. All our school did was sex education (loads and loads of it) and rehearsals for the y6 leavers show, which had no adult input and seemed to engender lots of ridiculous rivalry. Feels like a complete waste of six weeks - and meant the kids had nothing to distract them from their stupid arguments (other than sex ed, which a lot of them found a bit overwhelming!)

I dont know if you were right or wrong to send this message but dont feel bad for sending it your dd is miserable and this friendship group is causing her misery the other mother was defending her dd and replying head on iyswim I would keep up the conversation with her tbh see what she says. Your dd deserves to be happy hopefully with the summer break and moving to high school will shift the dynamic. She shouldnt stop her activity encourage her to make other friends

I think if your DD really doesn't want to go back to cadets, then I would allow her to make that decision for now. Maybe there is another type of cadets, or Sea Scouts or something, that she could do instead - even Guides?

As a mum I think its important to send a message to your dc that you will back them up and be there for them if there is a problem. At the same time it is hard to know what's going on with groups of young girls. There's a difference between bullying and leaving someone out, even though it is a bit unkind.

Sounds horrible for you and your DD and I'm sorry to say that these girls don't sound like they were ever really true friends. These types of girlie spats are magnified by the use of social media. Kids can be even nastier behind a keyboard. I would limit her use of this or take her off altogether until she's a bit older.

There's a difference between bullying and leaving someone out
NO!!. SOCIAL EXCLUSION is a widely recognised form of emotional bullying!
OP you really need to flag this up with the cadets.They need to talk to these children.Teamwork is very core to the values they are trying to instill.
IME these social exclusions within former friendship groups,whilst very painful , are normally very shortlivedi , the girls get bored with it and decide it's someone else's turn to be excluded.