To Think That Everyone Of Pakistani/South Asian Descent Should Be Outraged At This Racist Daily Mail Story.

[CarolPatell1967]

www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-3162989/The-brave-woman-dares-shatter-toxic-taboo.html

As a Pakistani (with no inbreeding as far as i know) with a disabled child this racism sickens me.

The daily mail have used a brown south asian lady to be racist to her own people.

A google search shows Daily Mail have an obsession with this topic.
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1392217/Muslim-outrage-professor-Steve-Jones-warns-inbreeding-risks.html

Their are a few more articles all saying the same thing.

Im used to the Daily Mail smearing/hating muslims (particularly Pakistani muslims) but to mention genetics feels a bit Hitlerish.

Don't read DM but family member told me of article.

YABU this issue is well known and needs addressing.

Not racist at all. It's a massive problem in certain communities; where I live we have a very large orthodox Jewish community and you see many of them with disabilities.

There is no need to marry your cousin, it's irresponsible to say the least.

Add that the issue of the women having very little choice in who they marry, the risks to the children should be hammered home as much as possible.

Meh. She's right. DH is south Asian origin and we live in a predominantly Indian/Pakistani area. Many Pakistanis I have met have quite openly stated they've married, or intend to marry, their cousins. Amongst the Hindu community, there is less emphasis on that but very strong pressure to marry within the caste and that often means the couple end up being distantly related to each other. I think the most 'genetically healthy' communities are the Sikhs and Christians ...

Also, hillbillies. The ones in North Carolina, that sort.

Don't forget all the disabilities that are classed as NFN...normal for Norfolk.

OP whether or not you like it, this is a problem.
My friend (who is Indian) regularly attends Great Ormond street with her boys.
At each new meeting with a consultant, when having a general chat, she is asked about marriage within the family because of the great risks that it throws up and it's causative nature in several pathologies in pakistani.

It is not racist at all, it is responsible questioning.

My guess is despite your ethnicity, you know little about this.

I wonder what things were like a long time ago - when people rarely travelled outside their community.

Much like Norfolk is today, see my previous post!

pathologies in pakistani children that should say

My Chinese grandmother went absolutely ballistic when one of my uncles wanted to marry someone with the same surname, as historically your surname denoted what village your family came from.

I can't get my head around how a woman born 100 years ago understood inbreeding issues, but people in 2015 don't.

I can't get my head around how a woman born 100 years ago understood inbreeding issues, but people in 2015 don't.

Because some parts of the world are far more than 100 years behind.

This is Carol' s only thread.
Carol, who are you?

Op won't be back, but I disagree with the notion it is racist to discuss this issue.

I think there was a documentary on BBC1 a couple of years back relating to the issues of intermarrying have caused/are causing in the British Muslim and Jewish communities. Deafness was mentioned a lot for the former (apparently there is a disproportionately high occurence of deafness in the muslim community) and Tay Sachs for the latter.

However the Jewish community have taken steps to combat this, with the database mentiomed uothread.

One of the major issues with having these sorts of discussions is people's unwillingness to have an open and frank debate without pulling out the 'racist' card at every junction.
While I think the Daily Mail is a hotbed of racism and prejudice, I can't say that this particular piece screams racism. Inter-marriage within certain communities is a well documented phenomenon

This isn't racism, it's fact.

It's also not confined just to the Pakistani community. We have a problem locally with romy gypsies. They tend to marry within three big families. I think one extended family have lost three children in a few years to a nasty genetic disease. Very sad.

I think it's quite damaging to shout "racism" to stifle debate. This is a real issue and needs to be addressed,

There is no need to marry your cousin, it's irresponsible to say the least.

My white british aunt married her cousin, 50 years ago, their only child befoe divorce had some disorders, the whole family even back then assumed they were due to the parents being related.

A very good Asian heritage friend of mine married his first cousin (nor arranged, a love match) they decided that they wouldn't have children because they new of the risks involved.

This is a massive issue, particularly within some communities and needs addressing.

I'm Irish descent.

CF is fairly common amongst the Irish, as until say 40-50 years old there was a fairly small gene pool, as noone migrated there, and the population wasn't that large. Also in my parents/grandparents generation there was a lot of marrying second cousins, just because in those days, particularly in rural communities there wasn't much opportunity to meet people. I'm a carrier of CF myself.

Do I get offended by someone saying that the Irish have a good chance of being carriers etc because of what happened in the past? No of course not, it happened, though not so much now. It's fact.

It's not racist. I don't see why the author being Indian is significant at all.

''The daily mail have used a brown south asian lady to be racist to her own people.''

Patronising.

I wonder what things were like a long time ago - when people rarely travelled outside their community.

Now I think about it, the only first marriage I'm aware of in my family tree resulted in 13 children almost all of whom died within the first 2 years of their life. The only other place that a similar mortality rate occurs is among a couple that are distantly related but come from a line where generations of people with the same 3 surnames and very similar first names have been intermarrying.

Obviously antibiotics/vaccination has made a difference to infant mortality but I wonder whether some of the infant mortality in the past can be accounted for by a higher rate of birth defects due to intermarrying being more common.

Also, first cousins marrying does carry a higher health risk to children. I don't like the tone of the article but it isn't racist.

Worrying as the well documented problems around intermarriage/disability are, I'm also thoroughly disturbed to see a cry of "racism" about something which so obviously isn't

It seems to me to deflect from the importance of dealing with real racism, if only in giving ammunition to those who parrot "oh, they're just pulling the race card again"

I'm a paediatrician and have worked in several parts of the U.K. the places with the highest incidence of inborn errors of metabolism (which are generally autosomal recessive genetic conditions, meaning a child has to inherit the gene from both parents) are high in areas where there is an established Asian population (Bradford as an example of somewhere I've been involved with), also orthodox jewish populations (hence why Manchester childrens hospital is an expert centre on these conditions), also common in the traveller population but being mobile this group is harder to keep track of.
Cousin marriages plays a very big part, as does a need to marry within your culture when your culture in that area consists of a small group of people who have been marrying within that small group for generations.

Several years ago I was involved in the treatment of 4 kids, all of Pakistani Muslim origin, all of whom were 2nd or 3rd generation British at least, but in an area with a smallish Pakistani Muslim community. They, within weeks of each other, became severely unwell (death or need for organ transplant being likely outcomes of the illness they had) The families didnt even know each other but public health looked into it and it turned out that they were all blood relatives one way or another.

I am not remotely a fan of the Daily Mail but this article has highlighted an issue that is not nearly spoken about enough.

OP the article refers to one particular genetic condition that I can speak of with considerable experience. Do you know how difficult the lives of some Pakistani people with Beta Thalassemia Major is?

Some (not all) British born Pakistani children diagnosed with this condition have an incredibly difficult life due to stigma, prejudice and misinformation. Some Pakistani families view it as a slur on their bloodline and try to hide the fact that a member of their family have the condition. They fear that if the community knows then the siblings of the patient will not be an attractive marriage match.

Despite this condition being a recessive gene (i.e both parents need to be a carrier for a child to be born with Beta Thalassemia Major) mothers are often blamed as the person who has brought the shame on the family.

This is a condition that can be treated and sufferers can expect to enjoy a fairly normal lifespan IF they have access to treatment. However, many are still dying prematurely due to ignorance.

Despite many campaigns to raise awareness in the Pakistani community, including information around screening and genetic counselling, this matter is still being swept under the carpet.

Still believe this is racism OP?

This is a serious issue within the Pakistani community in the UK. It is not racist to highlight this. The DM however, is not all that concerned about the issue as such, it just wants its readers to look down their noses at Pakistanis and this is their latest 'cause'.

SPOT ON