To ask everyone to eat less meat and meat products?

[Breadandwine]

There are 3 reasons I eat a plant-exclusive diet:

1. I feel I'm healthier (I became veggie to avoid BSE - and my osteoarthritis has been stopped in its tracks since I went vegan)
2. Animal welfare issues (I went vegan after looking at the inevitable cruelty involved in the meat and dairy industries)
3. Global warming/climate change (the single most important thing anyone can do to fight GW is to go vegan - the world's livestock industry contributes more to GW than does transport!)

Before global warming reared its ugly head, I was quite reticent about my veganism, only talking about it when I was asked. But now that our children's and our grandchildren's future is threatened, I'm a lot more vocal.

And now there's me and the Pope on the same side - who'dda thunk it?

Herbivores and humans have sharp front teeth. (Have you ever looked at the teeth of a rabbit)?

Which teeth do you use to bit into an apple? I'm guessing the two front teeth (they're the ones I use).

I use those same front teeth to chomp into a chop, and then use my molars to grind it.

Humans also have canine teeth which herbivores do not.
Omnivores have:

Sharp incisors
Smaller canines
Bumpyish molars for crushing (not grinding)
Ergo - omnivores (which we are) have evolved to eat both meat and vegetable matter.

If you choose to eat only vegetable matter, then go ahead. No-one is telling you not to.
Just don't tell everyone else what they should be eating

Funny that if humans are meant to be herbivores, therefore prey, we seem to have evolved many advantages shared with predators, and none of the natural skills herbivores have for escaping and/or defending themselves.
We might have evolved from apes rather than horses or rabbits, but evolving to lose the climbing and agility skill of the apes, whilst not evolving any of the qualities other prey have for defence/escape, would have been a spectacularly dumb move if we weren't going to bother being predators. The first ape did not get down from the tree to hang around being prey on the floor until it produced live young. By the time natural selection left humans pretty useless in the climbing stakes you can guarantee we'd have been pretty good predators. And it's a massive waste of energy not to eat something you've killed, even in defence, if there is any possibility of getting some nutritional value.

Also, you cannot lump all carnivores, herbivores or omnivores into one big heap of their own. For instance, a cow is a herbivore. They have four digestive compartments interconnected as a single stomach.
As humans, we don't have that.
What does that make us? Not a cow
(I think it is silly to try to make these comparisons.)

Exactly. Suprising too how as herbivores we're shockingly bad at digesting plant matter or even getting the nutrients from it. And how small children still have the inbuilt skill to avoid certain bitter tastes incase they're poisonous plants, most commonly seen in toddlers getting funny about green veg, again a somewhat unlikely quality for a herbivore to dismiss such a massive swathe of plant matter.
I'm sure it's not the only example but both horses and cheetahs can run as a short spurt with aneorobic respiration and I hardly think they're the same group either!

Each to their own but I absolutely do not agree with forcing your views on to other people. It's like religion, people have the right to believe in whatever they want and I respect that. However, I don't like people trying to convert me. If you push this on to people you'll probably put them off even more in my opinion

YANBU.

There are some gorgeous recipes out there that are totally satisfying and non-dairy alternatives do not have to be expensive. Check out:

Ohsheglows.com
DeliciouslyElla.com
NutritionStripped

I find that a lot of people write off what they do not know. There can be a faff factor to preparing more veg than whacking a chicken breast under the grill but this can be factored in easily. I've never had a crap recipe from the ohsheglows site. They are always delicious. River Cottage Veg and Light and Easy are also great recipe books. The latter is dairy free but there are some meat dishes in there.

"Suprising too how as herbivores we're shockingly bad at digesting plant matter or even getting the nutrients from it."

Also surprising how shockingly bad we are at digesting raw meat, which is how all other carnivores eat their meat.

To make sure you do everything you can to reduce you carbon footprint make sure you only eat UK (or where ever you are based) produced fruit/vegetables/pulses and grains and avoid all factory processed/packaged foods.

I eat meat and I love cheese, a varied and natural diet is crucial to wellbeing and I agree with you, but for my own reasons I eat meat and dairy.

"how shockingly bad we are at digesting raw meat"

Just how bad is that, exactly? Not bad at all, judging by how my body enjoys and digests without problem all the steaks tartares or carpaccios that I regularly eat. Not to mention the bloody steaks that have seen the pan for all of 5 seconds. Mmmm. Yummy.

"If humans are clearly so not designed to either ingest or digest meat"

Completely false. People who claim this need to learn about the various enzymes in the human body, and how they digest efficiently and quickly digest animal protein and fat, even before the food you eat gets into the colon.

Unlike most grains and beans that we rely on the gut bacteria to digest for us, which is why you fart so much after eating them.

"here are the animal welfare issues that everyone should consider before they put any animal product in their mouths. Get your large brain around that, Cote!"

I have - Before your OP, if you can believe it and the result is that if I cared so much about animal welfare, I would not be eating them. As I said before on this thread.

Also, as I said before, I do try to source what I consume (not just meat) from ethical, reputable, and local producers. That is as far supportive of "animal welfare" as I'm interested in going, I'm afraid, as someone who will soon be eating their body parts.

As cote pointed out hack we can digest raw meat. And fish. Funnily enough, even with pork and chicken, we can digest it, we just generally don't have the immune system to fight the bacteria hence the side effects of that, not the raw meat itself. Whereas we don't even have the ability to digest a lot of plant matter in its natural uncooked form. If I was foraging for food in the uk 2000 yrs ago I imagine I'd do better on raw meat than grass and trees and the odd bit of digestible plant matter. Let alone if I had a fire and could choose to cook. I'd suggest the fact man found fire a hell of a long time ago played a large part in us losing our ability to eat all raw meat like every other carnivore or omnivore.
You'll also recognise pre farming, hunter man was more likely to find animals to kill and eat, than naturally occurring plant matter that fufilled all dietary requirements within a day's walk. Nomadic man wasn't toting around enough plant matter to make a balanced meal at the end of 4 weeks. Man is universally acknowledged to be a hunter- gatherer pre farming, which is a pretty good indicator man was an omnivore.
Funny too how the human digestive system can process iron from meat much more efficiently than from plants, with lack of iron hardly being something Stone Age man would have survived long with.
By all means be a healthy vegan now when all the technology is available to produce a diet you can survive and prosper on, but let's not try and say we've evolved to be herbivores.

This is a good point Lurkedforever1 modern vegan diets are possible because for one thing there is the current technology and intensive farming to produce quantity of meat/dairy free food, for a lot of people a wide variety of plant based food produce is shipped to them from every corner of the earth, naturally that level of variety and quantity is not available from only plant based foods.

Also surprising how shockingly bad we are at digesting raw meat, which is how all other carnivores eat their meat.

Actually, if we were fed raw meat from birth we would be much better at it.

Given that not many humans do this, the closest real wold example that I have first hand experience is dogs.
If you start a puppy on a processed food diet (be it tinned meat, dried food or whatever), then try and get it on to raw food as an older dog (which has many health benefits) you will probably struggle to begin with as the dog adapts to the new diet. Some dogs will become quite ill and in some cases the transition may prove to simply not be possible.
If a puppy feeds from it's mother and then goes straight on to raw food then there is no problem and they thrive.

I'm not suggesting it would be that simple as humans given that we have been cooking our meat for many thousands of years and countless generations but perhaps rather than going vegan and eating all that tasteless crap we should wean ourselves back onto raw meat?

It's not a case of us not being 'designed' for meat - that is simply wrong.

If humans are clearly so not designed to either ingest or digest meat

Erm - Cote you have taken my words completely out of context there. Please read the whole post, and indeed, my other posts. We are actually in agreement, I believe

I know we are in agreement. My reply was to those who actually believe people have not evolved to eat meat. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

I'm very tempted to revisit veganism, in light of the Cecil the lion story. But I'm daunted, I have 2 young children and I wouldn't expect them to be vegan at their age, plus I have a fridge/freezer full of meat products. Also, I don't have huge amounts of money and I do think being vegan is time and money expensive. I'm not making excuses, I'm trying to figure out how to make the transition. Tips much appreciated.

Gast - the situation of Cecil the Lion is abhorrent. But it has no connection with eating meat. The idiot who shot him is a wild (endangered) animal trophy hunter. He never intended to eat Cecil. The two things are entirely unconnected.

I am struggling to understand why some people are connecting the two things.

I don't mean the dentist is endangered - of course, I meant some of the animals he chooses to shoot are

Although the lion is not endangered at the moment, it is classed as a vulnerable species, and there are studies that suggest it may die out in the next 35 years if we are not careful.

This horrible man has been photographed with other 'trophies' he has shot, eg, a Rhino - which is endangered.

Gast, check out the websites I mentioned up thread.

In my head the two things ARE connected. Having been vegan I know full well that I don't need animal products to survive, therefore I eat them essentially for pleasure; so is it really that different? This is just how I see it FOR ME and I don't expect others to agree.

In my head the two things ARE connected
Okay - in your head they are connected. In most normal heads, they are not

YABU. My diet is my business.

TiedUp - I find that a lot of people write off what they do not know

YET ANOTHER patronising comment. Who do you think you are to assume that people 'do not know'. It has been said over and over and over again that posters here have researched their dietary requirements and animal welfare and the pros and cons of meat and vegetable diets.

People are far more intelligent than you give them credit for. You are assuming that because you choose not to eat meat you are more intelligent than those who do.
You are entitled to your own opinion, you eat what you choose to eat, but just FUCK OFF telling everyone else what you think they should be doing.