Daughter not allowing my mum to see their dad after horrific accident

[brownpaperbag2]

More of what on earth do I or my mum do?!

My mum and her boyfriend lived together for 27 years, but 3-4 years ago my mum instigated a split and they sold up and each bought a 1 bed flat. Subsequently they got back together, and the last 2 years they have seen each other 2-3 times a week, been on holiday together 4 times etc. he has written letters saying how much he loves her and is so happy she is back in his life.

My mums boyfriend has 2 daughters who didn't like my mum. When they split up the eldest daughter was furious at my mum. My mum and her boyfriend are in their 70s and it was seen as unfair that he lost their 3 bed bungalow with garden to each move into a 1 bed flat. My mum hurt her dad and she can't forgive my mum for it.

Since they have been back together my mums boyfriend has been to our family parties and gatherings. Seen a new grandchild born, been at 50th birthdays etc. however, my mum hasn't been to her boyfriend daughters houses at all. Her boyfriend lived with me from age 12 so he is in all but name my step father, he is very much part of our family.

On Saturday he was cycling along a path and fell off his bike into the road and on coming car. He was air lifted to hospital quite far away to the neurological department. He has a broken neck, spine, ribs etc and a nasty head injury. He is not himself, barely conscious and doesn't know who my mum is. He thinks it is 40 years ago and thinks his youngest daughter is his wife, who he divorced over 30 year ago.

I am praying for a full recovery, physically he should but it will be a while. Mentally we just don't know. Clearly his daughters are very distressed. They have been at his bed side everyday. I don't want to cause more upset for them.

However, their hatred of my mum meant they didn't phone her to let her know and refuse to answer her calls. When they found out his sister, their aunt, was giving mum information, they stopped their aunt from coming to the hospital. It was only when he didn't turn up for a date on Sunday and she called round all his friends and family that she found out.

I took her to the hospital (3.5 hours drive away each way) on Tuesday and we were met with coldness. It was clear they were shocked to see us as they assumed my elderly mum couldn't get to the hospital. They said that only 2 people were allowed round the bed, ie she can't be there. So I gave eacha big hug and said how sorry I was for them and which one should I buy a coffee for to allow mum some time as one of the two allowed.

We phoned the hospital yesterday to be told that the daughters had specifically said that only they could be spoken to over the phone with news. Mum is really upset. I was going to take her to the hospital again tomorrow but she said not to as she couldn't face his daughter distain.

It seems so cruel. I have emailed them saying how sorry I am for their worries and how much their dad means to me and my siblings and we will do all we can to support him and them. I said that I was really pleased that after 27 years they were back to seeing each other again and that in time, once he heals, we should all get together. I basically hoped that seeing it written down that we are also part of his life would soften their stance a bit. Not only that, but once he recovers they will have to explain their behaviour to my mum (his partner). Although I did not say that to them specifically.

Sadly, on top of all this, my father is being treated with chemo for cancer, in a different hospital. It is very stressful and I worry for my mum as well as her boyfriend.

What to do?

I'm so sorry OP, how awful. Can I recommend thinking about getting in touch with Headway? They can help with all sorts of aspects of head injury and spinal injuries, and I've found them very sensitive during early days and dealings with family relationships etc.

Jack11, mum and my siblings and I would not go down the legal route. My mums boyfriends daughters believe they are acting in his best interests, they just don't want my mum involved at all. I believe it is a form of punishment just because they don't like her, they have not accepted that mum and their dad are back together. I guess this is human nature at its worst. Although I am sure they have justified it to themselves somehow. There is nothing more blind than those who don't want to see!

I've sent them an email explaining how much their dad means to me and my siblings and how sad we all are and that we are communicating daily for updates on his condition. He came on holiday to Cornwall with me and my children/husband etc at Whitsun less than 2 months ago. He is totally part of our family. My children have asked to see him, not that I would let them anyway as the hospital is not appropriate for them.

In the email I said how pleased we are that our mum and their dad were back together over the past 18 months, that them meeting up 2-3 times a week and going on holiday together 4 times has been great for the pair of them. I ended by saying that their dad had helped our mum with her recent health issues and we wished to help too if they wanted.

So in a not at all subtle way, but hopefully a non aggressive way, I have told them that mum and her boyfriend are a couple again.

We are giving it a few days to allow the swelling on his brain time to go down and him to recover a bit. However, my concern is that we will drive to the hospital again and not be allowed to see him. That would really distress my mum. Can his daughters do that?

No they can't it is up to the nurses. Ring them and explain the history.

Next of kin is not the same as lasting power of attorney which is legally enforceable. The drs may be able to help you if they know full story and daughters do not have LPA.

At this point in time he doesn't have mental capacity, therefore decisions can be made in his best interests under the terms of the mental capacity act, the nearest legal relative has rights aaround what constitutes a best interest decision unless the professionals cconcerned consider they are not making the decision with the best of intention, in which case an independent advocate
ccan be appointed. In reality in this situation I would continue to appeal the daughter , it may also be worth contracting the adult safeguarding lead at the hospital and asking if they have followed the mental capacity act guidance, this may make them think about what is happening

Yes ring the hospital and emphasis that your mum is the patient's "partner" and would like updates.

Sounds like a really horrible situation all round. I'd one of them softer than the other? Are there any other relatives in their side who can help mediate? If you're only looking to visit when they're not there, a work around will be possible. And speak to the nurse in charge too.

having recently been in a situation where someone was in hospital and eventually passed away i would just like to add that we were spoken to by the ward numerous times about people ringing up and if we wanted any information they had to get consent from the patient first.

just thought i would add incase something similar has happened.

i know ur dm is not young so this may not be possible but in a lot of hospitals where conditions are serious visiting times go out the window therefore if u had a day to spare u could drive down and stay for the day? im sure at some point he would end up alone or if not the dd's may eventually come round.

anyway hope your dm is ok its an awful situation to be in

Hi OP

I wasn't suggesting you should go down the legal route- I saw a previous poster had suggesting going down the court of protection route. I was trying to caution against using it for the present situation (obviously not very clearly).

Things may be different in different hospitals, as it would appear from other posters experience.

In my experience, and in my current hospital, we don't often ignore the NoK wishes where a patient hasn't the capacity to make decisions about who visits/given information about them. It's not as simple as you informing them that your mum is his partner and that would be it- if the daughter's raised objections, we would be obliged to take consideration of the views (at least in the short-term) while we tried to work out what was going on.

Details simply can't be given out on your insistence, if the daughter's state it is not (to their knowledge) what their father would have wanted - because they are his NoK. In the first instance, we would probably err on the side of caution and abide by the NoK wishes until we had more information. If you turned up, and we had been asked not to allow any other visitors, we would abide by that. If you called me to inform me of the situation I wouldn't, however sympathetic I might be to the situation, simply accept it and give you information that I had been asked not to divulge. None of our nurses would either.

Of course, hospitals can (and sometimes do) ignore the NoK wishes, but it can make things worse not better. In more than one case we have been advised against it by medico-legal advisors. It can depend on the particular dynamic- it's easier to ignore/police if the "warring parties" (for want of a better term, not applying this to you) are all blood relatives (e.g. both parties are patients children, siblings etc) or where the patient lives with the person the family wish to exclude. In your situation where they split up and no longer live together, although seeing each other regularly, it could be easier for the daughter's to argue that the relationship is not the same as "long-term partner", and especially in view of their dad not recognising your mum could argue it may distress him too much at present time. Clearly, if the medical team felt having your mum there would be beneficial, we would use that as an argument to over-ride their wishes. What I'm trying to say is that it is not as simple as "hospital can, and so will, over-ride the NoK wishes if you tell them your version of events".

Mums boyfriend is moving hospitals in the next few days to a nearer hospital to where he lives, which happens to be where my mum lives. So she can go to see him under her own steam. I am 100% sure that he will want to see her so his daughters will have no choice. The first few times she goes in my siblings or I will go with her to to give her confidence.

This is a awful and cruel situation for your mum and my heart really does go out to you. But with 10 years icu experience, if the NOK have specified a visiting list and your DM BF is not able to express his wishes, the nurses will have to vet who visits and refuse entry to those who are not named, no matter how much sympathy they have to the situation.

To avoid confrontation, I would call and ask if BF was up to visitors and what the visiting times are- their response will be a good indicator as to wether his visitors are restricted.

This situation is not new- emotions run extremely high in icu. Could you ring one of them and try to make a plan for your mum to visit? to you both x

I thought you said he didn't recognise her - so how can you be sure he wants to see her ? And if no one at the hospital is talking to you - who is giving you all these updates ?

The thing is we only hear your side of things. The daughters may see things in a completely different light and may even know things from the last 18 months that have occurred between your Mum and him that you are not aware of. They see everything from the side of their Dad and are looking after his best interests at the moment. The do sound like they dislike your Mother a lot and may have good reason to from their point of view. You just don't know what they know, if you see what I mean.

The hospital staff see a lot of this as these situations cause much family tension.
Not nice at all for you or your Mum though.

Oh I hope his daughters come round OP, once the shock subsides they'll hopefully put his best interests first.

Perhaps at some point when it's appropriate you can speak to his daughters and be clear that you get your Mum is difficult to get along with and that she doesn't do subtle and that you and your siblings get the same treatment from her too.

They may think she is deliberately unpleasant to them.

I feel for your mum - this must be awful for her, but the truth of the matter is that she is not his wife, they don't live together and as things stand, her dp doesn't know who she is. I think she ought to stay away. His daughters have enough to deal with, without having to cope with your mum, who you say is not the easiest person. If they are not ready to forgive her for hurting him, I dont think that now is the time to push it.

If her dp recovers, he can tell the nurses and his dds that he wants to see her.

I agree with sometime. You've done what you can now you and your mum need to back off and be patient. Its regrettable that things are this way but you are going to have to wait until he asks for her and best not to worsen relations in the meantime.

I used to work in ICU and we had cases similar to this over the cause of a few weeks, which where so horrible to witness three nurses who had previously co habiting for years went and got themselves married (not to each other)

1was an ex wife (only she wasn't they had not bothered to get divorced) of over 10 years found herself next of kin, whilst the current partner of patient who was pregnant had no rights at all, wife was lovely and told us to do what the girlfriend wanted, unfortunately the girlfriend attacked the wife "as who the fuck does she think she is giving me permission?"

Er! his wife!
the situation deteriorated quickly

Mum of gay man refused long term partner visiting and information, on the grounds her son was confused and not really gay... For the past 10 years

Young teenage girl found herself next of kin to the father she barely knew and certainly didn't care for.

This is something so many people don't think about when co habiting

Bloody hell, I've never really thought about this properly, certainly not more than a fleeting thought anyway and I work in a hospital!! ( I may be dumb for not but I've a lot of things to think about

27 years is longer than most marriages and to think a simple piece of paper could prevent your mum seeing or worst case scenario saying goodbye is unthinkable gutted for her, hope it works out okay

Millli am I right in thinking you have a RL connection to this?

No none at all. Just picking up on what has been said by OP and also having seen many dysfunctional family situations that only get worse when things get bad. There are always many sides to these issues and different ways that people see things.

Its a horrible situation for the OP to be in though as she sees herself as family as does her Mum.

Oh ok, the way I first read it I wondered if you were alluding to specificities.

I wondered if milli knew too, and I'm the op! Actually very good advice. I hadn't thought of it that way. Mum and her boyfriend, when they lived together all those years, used to slag off the other to whoever listened - another one of my mums lovely character traits! Although, her boyfriend was just as bad, so his daughters will have a different view.

I hope not. He has been writing her love letters over the past 18 months. I think he wants to be with her but is also quite happy not to actually live together, which, quite frankly, I don't blame him. Mum has told me that their relationship was purely non sexual for the last 10 years when they lived together, although they slept in the same bed.

Now they see each other there is still no sex but they are happy with each other's company. If they go on holiday they sleep in the same bed, so in Cornwall they shared a double bed. But no hanky panky

Can't believe my mum told me!

I will phone the hospital and speak to the ward nurse to see if a) he is more aware and b) if it is ok to visit. I am 100% sure that he will want to see mum if he is normal, but will he ever be?

The really dreadful thing for all of my family, not just mum, is that if he doesn't get mentally back to normal, he may as well have died. We will have to grieve for a man still alive.

Also having sent his daughters the email of support and explanation, I have heard nothing.

Mum is getting information from his sister, who phones her nieces at 9 each morning for updates, as she isn't allowed information from the hospital either.

Tbh, if your mum is as difficult as you say I don't think I blame the daughters.

Especially if he wouldn't know her!

They have enough going on.