I like my friend but dislike her son.

[DangerGrouse]

We met two years ago at a toddler group and really hit it off. We've been good friends ever since and hang out every week or so with our now 2.5 year old kids. We have really similar personalities and interests and I would really like to find a way of staying friends despite problems starting to arise.
Her son is two months older than my daughter and for the past few months has started to be regularly horrid to her. He's always trying to hurt her, push her over and take away whatever toy she has. My friend rarely disciplines him and so he just continues and I often just have to put my daughter on my lap to keep him off her. I'd worry that telling someone you don't like their parenting would spell the end of a friendship so I'm worried about what to do... Any suggestions?

This will be the situation as long as you are a parent either with this kid or another one. This kid might be a great kid in a few years or not.

It's a complete waste of time trying to stay friends for the sake of the kids with adults you dislike and it's a waste of time meeting up
With adults who have kids you dislike or who your kids dislike.

Make friends with adults and meet these adults in adult time.

Let your kid choose her friends in her time.

And don't criticise any other parents parenting! To their face! Bad move

I'm going to start by saying that I think that apart from one or two posts, this is the most thoughtful, sensitive, most sharing and interesting threads I've ever read here. So to all of you. When I was reading through the thread I started scribbling down names of posters I wanted to comment on (in a complimentary), and there were so many, I had to stop!

So there is some fantastic sharing and advice on here.

My suggestion is to say to your friend "how do you feel DC are getting on at the moment?". This gives her the opportunity to tell you how she sees it from her perspective, and will be a massive help to you in deciding how to move forward. I.E. If she denies any kind of a problem ("they're best friends, aren't they!") I would seriously consider dropping her. Any other answer can lead you into a conversation which will make your friendship closer and support each other (maybe she thinks you're being precious and over-protective about your dd? Maybe she's afraid of confronting her son, etc). An honest conversation - (and not a mean one) could be brilliant here.

But there's something else I really want to say, and it's no disrespect to those posters (whose names I've scribbled down, but can't recall who said what now!). I TOTALLY get those posters who've said "I wish I'd listened to my child" and "my child felt unsupported because they reported things and I seemed to ignore them". YES. I get that. And how huge it is. We MUST - all - listen to our children.
BUT we all must equally NOT get sucked in to kiddy stuff. They DO blow hot and cold, they do get upset and then forget about it. They fall in and out of friendships, etc.
Not so much in this case. And I would NEVER tell a parent to NOT listen to their child. But please, please, please be aware of getting sucked in. Me and my DSis are no-contact for entering our third year over what I now know was a row the kids got into. I didn't see it as that at the time, and my DSis won't forgive or forget.

Oh Fatmomma .... What a lovely thoughtful post... You are absolutely bang on about listening to children in these instances... Alas I too failed to listen to my DCs re the DD of an now ex-friend who was so unpleasant with them ( behind my back) ... I really regret those days now.
I'm sorry too that you are no longer in a relationship with your DSis.
Dangergrouse... I think you have to go with your gut instinct here... There's been some good advice already ... How does your daughter feel when you all meet up? I know that children do go through phases but being unkind/hurting others is not acceptable.
Good luck.

He might be enjoying the reaction he is getting but it is very unlikely that he is enjoying hurting her.

With a friend of two years I would discipline her child. I am thinking of one particular friend, her daughter is lovely but I would say something if she wasn't and not to the friend to the daughter.
I might feel differently if we were in their house, but in my house I would explain that is not what we do. I would then lavish my child with attention and hope the visitor realises.

However also think whether you count this friend as a forever friend? If not it might not be worth persuing, although if you've seen each other every week it might be difficult to break.

It's the parents fault. One friends dd went through a hitting stage but she is an amazing mother every time it happened she took the child to sit in the porch. Our meet ups not very relaxing for a while as she spent most of the time on our porch (!) but it worked eventually. Everytime a child was aggressive dd would stage whisper that they needed to go and sit in the porch!

Another friend with aggressive kid to my elder dd I had to bin as her dd was consistently horrid to mine. Mine was confused as to why someone who was unpleasant to her kept being invited to our house. You sometimes have to put your child over a friendship.

He might seem huge to you - I can promise you he really is a tiny child (I have a 9yo now and any 2 yo is tiny!) who has little control over his actions and emotions. Having said that, I can understand you being pissed off if his mum is doing nothing.

I have a fantastic group of friends I met when my eldest was a baby. This age was absolutely the worst. Every time we met at least one of the kids was a terror. We cooled off a bit and met outside a lot more! They grew out of it pretty quickly and we are all still great friends.

I had a friend like this. She was lovely, my best friend. Her DD was vile: hitting, pushing, etc. Both our DD's were 2 years old when this was going on. Every time she was nasty to my DD, friend said: "oh, be nice", but didn't actually intervene. I felt very awkward.

After months of this, my DD suddenly retaliated and smacked her DD hard in the face. Friend was mortified and started shouting at my DD. It seems it was OK for her DD to behave like that to my DD, but not the other way around.

We fell out for different reasons, but I wish I had had the balls to say something at the time. Please do that, you have to protect your DD. I wish I had done.

And PS: it is NOT the child's fault, it is the parent's fault.

Just see her without children. Leave with DH or babysitters and go out alone.

I agree - 2.5 is tiny.

He shouldn't be allowed to hit. But perhaps this could be a learning situation for DD. Will she never get hit or bullied at school?

Mum should intervene and OP if Mum doesn't but perhaps also tell DD to tell the boy to stop hitting me or that she doesn't want to play with him now or to come over to you or whatever.

That would give an opportunity to raise it with the DM.

Thanks again for all your responses. Really interesting experiences and has given me a different perspective on how to handle our friendship. It never occurred to me to break our friendship but from this I can see that if it continues I will need to put my child first as she will wonder why I let her be hurt all the time which isn't fair.
I'd like to add that at no point did I say it was the boys fault, I know this obviously which is why I did say it was her parenting that needed to change. I do stand by the fact that I make no apologies for not liking someone that repeatedly hurts my child, fault or no fault. It would be counterintuitive to like someone that causes your child pain, whatever age they are. Again, I don't hate him, I didn't get personal or call him names, I just said I didn't like him for a very good reason.

Ps he's on the 98th percentile for both height and weight. Tiny, he ain't. Might explain his extreme dominant behaviour. (My daughter is on the 25th percentile)

It sounds like a perfectly normal 'phase' to me. My dd's weren't physically violent, but didn't want to share their toys with visitors. My DN hit and bit, but is a lovely little boy now he's six months older.

If I were you I would start telling him off yourself, or say, "we don't behave like that in this house" if they are visiting you.
Good friends are hard to find, 2 year olds will grow out of shitty behaviour, that's why they are called the terrible two's.

I thought he was going to be older he isnt even 3yrs old anyway you could step in and tell him no dont hit/push/be rough with dd and carry on its a bit drastic to end the friendship over just as the children get older they will see less of each other and you are going to lose a friend dont stew over this be pro active step in your friend might be struggiling with him.

Little children are not aware of their height/ size at 2 it just makes the behaviour look worse if its a strapping toddler thats doing it . Why dont you teach your dd to say No so she can assert herself a bit better

Why don't you step in?

Why do you have to put your daughter on your lap? If you seem him hit/push/snatch a toy and mum doesn't see or do anything, just say 'Jonny don't push' or go over and take the toy and say 'let Sophie have a go first then it's your turn'.

Hopefully mum will get the message and step in.

I think mothers of girls feel that their girls are so incredibly delicate and that all boys are aggressors. I think I even remember feeling like that. (My first child a girl).

Just keep an eye on your dd. As you would anyway.

Your friend should discipline her son, but also, keep an eye for things that annoy other children.

Eg,my friend's dd used to block my son's path when he was on his scooter. She would do that until he lost it and hit her on the arm. And of course, then he was disciplined by me, she was comforted by her mother and I thought, hang on, is anybody going to say anything to princess precious for having stood in front of my son blocking his path for five minutes, which she did for fun!!!!

So just be very aware. Hitting is alwayys bad and wrong but there are other bad behaviours too.

Fwiw i am not keen on 1of my friends children dd wasnt keen either you can only do your best maybe see her without the kids as much

I had w friend like that with my last child. Her son's aggressiveness to mine felt intentional rather than normal boisterousness, and she did nothing about it. Her son would run up to mine and deliberately push him over. I have 3 sons and I'm not precious about them. So I avoided meeting up because I was worried about the effect on my son. 7 years later and her son is still a bully and she still doesn't try to discipline him.

I think you need to join some other groups and expand your friendships. There are lots of great people out there, it's not good to get dependent on anyone in particular. It will also give you and your son a better idea of normality.

I was always a bit too quick to discipline my firstborn and it was maybe inhibiting for him.

YANBU to want to protect your daughter.

YWNBU to distance yourself.

YABVVU to in any way blame this child. He IS tiny. His size has nothing to do with it. By suggesting he enjoys hurting your child you're assuming adult emotions and intelligence which simply don't exist. He has very little control and is simply doing something that causes a reaction, good or bad. He's seeking attention as do all children. Many, many children go through an aggressive phase. You are lucky that your DD hasn't yet.

The PARENTING of this child is unacceptable IMO. I would, and have, stepped in with kids I know and those I don't at soft plays etc. form a physical barrier between them and your child and simply say, "that's not kind, we must be gentle" in what my kids term my meaning business mum voice. Repeat and then suggest a nice form of play "why don't you show DD how to go down the slide" etc. If the mother doesn't like it, she will stop seeing you. Or perhaps she'll appreciate you demonstrating some parenting techniques. It also shows your DD that you're standing up for her in a way that backing out of the friendship won't.

If that fails and the child is still managing to hurt your child then stop seeing them. But please try to do that with sympathy in your heart for that child, who has no idea of social convention or right and wrong, and sadly may not learn it for a long time. Dislike the behaviour but not the child.

Sorry - last bit maybe doesn't make sense. It was just about why people might have different ideas about whether or not to discipline.

I don't think you should talk directly to your friend about the issue. It's unlikely to go well.

DS1 has visibly enjoyed the reaction he gets from hurting DS2 (and me) since DS1 was about.... 15mo, I'd say. zazzie makes an important distinction about how they enjoy the reaction they get from hurting someone; they don't necessarily enjoy doing the hurting although I wouldn't rule it out

IMO there was a lot of truthful observation in Lord of the Flies - there are plenty of nasty adults who enjoy causing pain to others and exerting their dominance, so why shouldn't we believe that children are at least capable of the same?

Tiny children's behaviour can appear downright vindictive, callous and cruel to our adult eyes. I do think that zazzie is right and that it's not always intended that way, but I believe that sometimes it is. In any case, it makes no difference to the victim (except that they're told to pity their attacker or 'stand up for themselves more' in cases where there's a grey area - yeah, take responsibility, victim ).

op I'd cool off the friendship a bit if I were you, or say sharply to the little boy 'NO HITTING!' next time he does it. If she sees how much it upsets you then the other mum might choose to respond appropriately. Or she'll leave you alone, so either way it's a win.

If you criticise her parenting or her kid, there is only one way this willl end!!!
.I would bite my tongue and meet up without the kids or else just ptotect your DD.A| few months down the line it might well be your little snowflake doing the smacking and grabbing.

I see. So she doesn't even do anything when you step in and take the lead? Not on.

You have a choice of stepping back from the friendship or telling her. Either way will probably end the friendship. It's awful that you are in this position.

You don't seem to want to wait it out which is understanable

There is always a chance she is struggling and will appreciate some help or guidance. Not sure how likely that is.