To be shocked that incontinence is ignored under PIP

[larant]

I have urinary incontinence to the point that I wear nappy like pads all the time. I still have accidents and if I am away from home for long, carry spare clothing as accidents are not uncommon. However under PIP, this is totally irrelevant.

They do also only assess on ONE condition. Not multiple. It's the same for ESA now and they (whoever is doing your medical) choose which condition they assess you on.

Sorry for multiple posts!

They certainly didnt assess me on one condition only?

(For either pip or esa)

Did the assessing on only one condition get pushed through?

I have an inkling the plan was to assess ONLY mental health OR ONLY physical health, rather than actually a single condition? But there have been so many changes I can't keep up.

When I spoke to them they told me the assessment was one condition only and they chose which one. I have multiple physical and mental diagnoses. The argument from them being there isn't time or resources to do more than one condition per claimant.

That was awhile ago and no idea how wide spread it is. But my GP told me the same thing its what they were seeing with PIP and ESA applications. So many people are being turned down, or given wrong levels or forced to an appeal all GP surgeries in my area now charge for patients to have a medical with a GP before writing supporting documentation (also charged) is written for an appeal now.

I should add ive not been assessed recently so things may have changed AGAIN in which case I should say always best to ask, if you have one, CAB or someone similar for up to date information.

I have double incontinence and it was the main reason I was awarded the enhanced rate care since they completely ignored all of my chronic mental health issues because I could talk to a doctor about my health in my own home.

I have multiple issues as well, and they were all taken into account.

Becca

You don't live in milton keynes do you?

May be its to do with the area you are in then? All DWP Medicals happen in my area one morning twice a month.

Sorry if I've confused or worried anyone.

But if you're fully able to manage your continence care albeit with pads it's not exactly incapacitating. What they're asking is if you need someone to manage it for you such as change a catheter etc

Mine (pip awarded june 2014, esa dec 2014, if that makes a difference) included in great detail and somewhat outing... my EDS (which hadnt actually been offically diagnosed at the time), autoimmune arthritis, psoriasis, prolapses/incontinence, GAD and chronic depression

I live nowhere near Milton keynes. I live in a very very rural part of Wales.

Oops, missed off my stupid constant fainting. Sans diagnosis.

They don't just assess one condition. I have multiple health issues that also impact on my mental health. OK they were shit with the MH side but they acknowledge I have a chronic fluctuating condition and some days I'm able to do loads other days I can do jack shit. I may have got lucky with my assessor though.

(I'm in wales, had to travel to cardiff for my medical after they no showed to my house twice!!)

I'm seriously thinking this is to do with different areas, just like nhs services vary hugely.

In mine we don't have CAB or similar and no kind of official help with appeals, so it's more than possible things I know about being an issue can easily be overturned at appeal with the right support which people in my area don't have anymore.

All medical conditions are taken into account (or should be). They don't have to be diagnosed, but this helps. They do have to affect you though, so if for example you have high blood pressure, take a tablet once a day and have no affects, then the high blood won't be considered.

I am surprised that you would get no points if you always use pads, as these are considered an aid. That would get you a maximum of two points though if you manage them yourself.

And the activity does not included cleaning anything other than yourself - not clothes or bedding, and not getting to the toilet, needing to be near one due to urgency etc

It's a disgrace but that's new system you really have to have multiple problems to score low level care 8 points when even need help to go loo counts as only 2 even though most people would need help like 8times a day.

They should have kept 3 levels of care at around 4-8-12 points not low 8 high 12.

If they cost you more you should get them from Incontience services if you need to use them all the time. Do you adapt the clothes you wear for pads? Often we make adjustments on what we wear , where we go because may not have help. If for example you wanted to wear tight jeans and need to change yourself could you do this in a toilet without help? Or do you just wear baggy clothes to make it easier? Not sure of your other physical needs but just saying if you wanted to do something you can't without help you should qualify the extra support. If that makes sense!

Oh and if you need to dispose of pads in special bin or take them outside bin as I know they can get v heavy can you do this without support? Or do you have to wait for someone else to take them out etc

Also if you are out and soak through can you get yourself home safely (and with some dignity) without help?

If youre incapacitated enough to need assistance with washing and dressing alongside needing an aid or appliance (pads) then you should easily get your 8 points. If your only need is that you need pads but can otherwise manage all tasks surrounding it then you will rightly only get the 2 points.

I need assistance with cooking, putting socks on and wear slip on shoes so I can get them on. On my better days, about once or twice a week, I can manage to have a bath, which I told them. I was told this counts as being able to wash myself and dress myself.
I was awarded zero points for incontinence.
I am wondering if it is worth this stress for just over £50 a week. Which I guess is the point of it.

ChuffinAda - Because it means additional costs. And actually I couldn't manage without help.

It's normal to expect to wash shower or bath everyday if you want to. If you don't do it because you can't manage that counts as need help of another person!
You can get it if you need help but don't get that help so if 3 days a week you can wash yourself that should score points. It's what I was trying to say about make sure you not adapting your life to much without considering what's "normal"

Due to my IBD I have a lot of problems with urgency and faecal incontinence. I'm awaiting a new trial to see if this will help get it under control but there's absolutely no way I could work in this situation. I am eligible for ESA - but because I've been raising my kids for the last 7 years I haven't been paying contributions so can't get that and my husband is over the threshold for me to receive income based ESA.

What the PIP assessors/scheme don't take into account is the mental distress and utter humiliation that comes with public incontinence and the debilitating fatigue that chronic illness often causes.

I can't work because of mine but I am lucky in having a husband who IS able to support me financially. There are many many people who don't have that and I personally know of many who have lost their homes because of not being ill enough to receive disability payments. These are often the same people who have lost their jobs because they are too ill to work. There's something very wrong with a system that causes situations like that.

I think you need to find expert advice to help you fill in the PIP forms! Maybe a charity specialising in your difficulties? Sometimes the key is in the wording that you use.

For fluctuating conditions, the descriptor that applies on most days applies. So if you are unable to bathe independently on 5/7 days, but can on 2/7 then it is the 'unable' descriptor that applies.

It is also supposed to take into account whether you can do it reliably and safely, and it's supposed to take pain and fatigue into account. So if you could physically cook a meal, but need reminding to use oven gloves and turn the oven off, then you can't do it safely, and one of the descriptors should apply.

With help needed with cooking, bathing and dressing, and your incontinence I would imagine it should add up to a PIP award.

With the wording, here is an example (plucked from my head so might not be exactly right but gives you the idea):
I can bath myself on a better day, so manage this once or twice a week- this sounds like you don't really need help.
On the majority of days (approx 5 days a week) I am too tired to go upstairs to the bathroom without help. Once in the bathroom I would not be able to get in the bath safely without another person lifting me. If I try to lift my arms to wash my hair then this causes immense pain and fatigue. Washing my lower half takes a long time due to having to stop and rest every 10 seconds or so. -This makes it a lot clearer that you really do need help, and it is your health preventing you from bathing, not a preference.