To wish teachers had to take a spelling proficiency test before qualifying?

[ChwatFeechers]

DD, 11, is in her final year of primary school.

Yesterday she brought her books home from year 5. I was gobsmacked at the number of spelling mistakes which had been missed, whilst others had been marked in green pen. It wasn't an oversight either, as the same mistake was made often without being corrected, for example Febury for February.
There were also some grammar corrections to things DD had written correctly.
This isn't the first time I've noticed mistakes either.
AIBU to wish teachers had to prove they can spell adequately?
[runs]

Imagine you are a small child, learning to walk. You wobble, stumble and fall - a lot. Mum praises you and shows you how it is done. You learn. Mum repeatedly tells you that you are doing it wrong. You give up and go back to crawling, which you were really, really good at.

Now, try telling someone who has squeezed out a few painful sentences that they have made x errors and see if they bother next time. You learn in lots and lots of different ways. Children do not learn well by being repeatedly criticised,

And, so, so fed up with teacher bashing on here. English teacher here. Great results. Huge range of strategies employed to help my pupils learn to write.

The pardon/what thing is a whole other thread. Most people I know were taught that pardon was more polite than "wot"

The educational standards of most TAs at our school is appalling, but then they're paid about £8 an hour, not sure what else you an expect. They'll be a thing of the past soon anyway.

It's a common misconception that -z is the US spelling and -s is British but it's not actually the case.

Oxford Dictionary on the matter here

Well, this is a fun thread! I'm a secondary English teacher and I don't correct all the spellings in my students' work, but to be honest it's not because I'm desperate to protect their delicate self-esteem. I mark about five spellings per piece simply because they can't really learn anymore in one go. When they get work back they add corrected spellings to their spelling page, which serves as a little personal spell-checker; write sentences to practise correctly using any homophones they have got wrong; and do a response to marking task which involves redrafting a specified section with a particular focus, adding correct punctuation, or doing a stretch and challenge task.

It's important to ensure pupils are confident spellers, but I also think it's important for them to take risks. I tell my GCSE groups that I'd rather see them make an ambitious (suitable) vocabulary choice that they can't spell correctly than play it safe with dull vocabulary choices. Flair and style is important, too.

Virginia how is 'recognize' a preference? It's wrong, in UK English. It's correct in US English. It's not just a case of what you fancy, surely?

Yes, it is just a preference, I'm afraid! The only rule is that you must use the version you choose consistently.

Teachers do take a literacy test.

And I wouldn't waste my time correcting the same spelling twice. Just uses up too much ink. I make my point with the first correction.

That's a good point Titus. I clearly remember being in a yr2 class, as a child and rubbing out a whole sentence to replace it with easier words because there was a queue at the teacher's desk and we were supposed to go up and ask for spellings we were unsure of. (Mrs Kirby, who must be long dead) Strange what you remember from your childhood....

So primary school children in the UK should be taught standardize, recognize, localize?

Well that's fine I guess, I didn't know that was the way we were spelling them now.

The other words like that all have an "s" though, otherwise I would have noticed before?

I really ummed and ahhed as she is a very literal, rules driven little girl and she takes everything very seriously, and I didn't want to undermine the school or the teacher. But OTOH I thought recognise was spelt with an "s" in the UK as the norm, and checked on the computer and so forth. Anyway, I told her that there were 2 different spellings and one was more usual in the UK (I see this is wrong now?).

She spelt it with an s in the test (and this is the difficult thing - does she do what mummy says or what the teacher says?) as at the time I thought it was likely a spellcheck error (I see now this is unlikely and it was deliverate).

Anyway the teacher told her that she must spell it the way it is on the worksheet (with a "z") and that was the end of that (because she is a smartarse? She's only 7. And like I say she is very rules driven hence checking with the teacher and it's confusing for her to have mummy say one thing and the teacher the other).

I must admit I don't see recognise spelt with a Z in our newspapers or anything, so is it definitely the case that this is the correct one? Or that it really doesn't matter? In that case it fits in with the other words of this type being learnt with an "s" - isn't that confusing for them?

I suppose I could have another chat with her about it I suppse because I said it was mainly one in the UK and the other in the US the teacher might have said that as well, rather than it's got to be a Z.

As you can guess from my post maybe I'm quite rules driven as well so I know where she gets it from! It's great for some subjects but not for others. She just wants to know what the answer is and if she's been told it's Z then what of it being spelt differently in all her books.

Oh I don't know.

Surely the TAs are paid so poorly BECAUSE of that? After all the education comes before the job

You see I tried to explain some of that but she's only 7 and I don't want to confuse her.

i didn't tell her recognize was wrong, just that the other spelling was more common in the UK.

The other words like that are all spelt with an S.

Her teacher told her she must learn it as per the sheet ie with a Z

Have I told her the wrong thing. She's very "black and white" so maybe I should just have left it. I expected the teacher to say there is more than one way, I suppose, I didn't think oh she'll mark her down for being a smartarse.

Seems I have cocked this one right up. As per usual.

Yes, youarereal, but if you're offering £8 per hour who can you expect to recruit? If they were better qualified, they wouldn't get paid more in that job.

Should I tell DD to be cautious of speaking up in class because of the whole smartarse thing? I thought it was quite brave of her to ask the teacher (I wouldn't have!) but it sounds like that was a mistake.

I don't know it's so hard this stuff and then whatever you decide it seems to be totally the wrong thing. There's a saying about fucking your kids up isn't there.

And yes I've given her totally the wrong fucking information.

I did read as much as I could before saying anything. I had no idea that we were teaching some of these words with Z now.

Fucksake.

I'm a TA. I have a degree, as do most of my colleagues. Some people on here seem very 'sneery' regarding TAs.

My spelling is vastly superior to an awful lot of newly qualified teachers.

PP are correct. You are only supposed to highlight a few, usually with a focus on high frequency words first. I'm a secondary school teacher. I am also dyslexic. I struggle with sequences and im worse with numbers. I struggle to remember the correct order of the letters and find it hard to visualise them.When I mark, I sit with my laptop next to me so that I can type what I want to say into 'word' and then copy into books correctly. I wouldn't have passed a proficiency test. However, I have been consistently graded as 'outstanding' In the last 7 years of observations by both Ofsted and SLT. My results are pretty good too

I think it depends on the demographic of the local area YouTheCat.

At our school, TAs are not well qualified. They are also living (who knows how) off the money they earn. In "posher" areas, there are lots of well qualified ex-career women who are working in school for something to do, rather than for the money IYSWIM.

No TA at our school has a degree and most don't have GCSEs. My friend who is an LSA at the next school does have a degree, but her TA role is very much a hobby until she can get back to a "proper" job, which befits her qualifications.

FWIW the unqualified TAs are very good at their jobs, they're not supposed to be teaching, but assisting the (qualified) teacher. Unfortunately not all schools use them that way.

My daughter has a maths teacher who cannot correctly complete basic problems. The number of times she has had her working corrected by students in my daughter's class is quite frightening. The teacher likes to hand out detentions for being corrected, so the children are now scared to say much but aren't learning a great deal as the teacher is incapable. A few parents have raised it with the head of Y7, hopefully it will be sorted.

The haitch is on a par with teachers who labour under the misapprehension that "something" has a k on the end. I attended a talk at dd's school and the person doing the presentation did this. I nearly stood up and roared.
The 'k' pronunciation is a regional variation and you would have been very unreasonable to 'roar' about it. If you want your children to only be exposed to RP then I suggest you prevent them from access to the television, radio and internet, while homeschooling them (that is, if you even have an RP accent yourself).

Teachers have varying spelling skills. The important thing is that children learn from them. If a teacher struggles with spelling then they have the opportunity to demonstrate strategies. My TA always has a dictionary to hand as she struggles with spelling or we might have a discussion about how to spell a word and talk about why a word might be spelt a particular way. I regularly make mistakes when modelling writing and model correcting my work.

There is no way every single spelling can be corrected in every piece of work. Marking should mainly focus on the purpose of the writing. Grammar and spelling should be corrected but equally some of the the responsibility needs to go back to the children to check their work (with word books or peers etc.) the important thing is the children learn from the marking not have every word corrected to prove the teacher can spell. The teacher will have a massive pile of marking to do every night and needs some time to prepare for the next day (and eat and sleep).

Re the American spellings and homework etc. I think you should discuss it with the teacher if you think there is a mistake in the homework. There are probably other parents thinking the same. If I sent home homework with a mistake I would want to know.

Just to add that in response to one poster, ize and ise are acceptable in English whereas ize is always used in America. Teacher is therefore correct in using either of these endings.

Well, you live and learn!

I do think it's pretty clear though, that ise is commonly used here and ize in the US. I have literally never seen ize used here in place of ise.

I think the key issue with spelling is developing children with good basic spelling and the ability to proofread their work for errors. This obsession with hard and easy spellings and combing children's work for errors is unfortunate and unhelpful. However, as a teacher myself, I do think there are some teachers who struggle with spelling. I have noticed this particularly in primary schools where a teacher, who is perhaps a maths specialist, has quite poor spelling. They key thing here is that they should check sheets etc. I am quite rigorous with spelling, but am more than happy to admit if I am not sure or may say to the children 'this does not seem right - can someone check this please?' I think this encourages the children in the right way and avoids all this angst.

Right so the teacher was definitely correct to teach them recognize and that it is not to be spelt recognise. Indeed you do live and learn! I must admit I was sure it was recognise in this country but I'm wrong and that's fine I can take it.

DD is in the bath at the moment I will sit down and explain to her later, maybe worth asking her to mention to the teacher as well that she realises now it was wrong and she has learnt the correct spelling!

I must admit this has shaken me a bit, I mean it's years since I went to school but I read a lot and I was sure sure sure that it was recognise here but I was very very wrong. So, you know, maybe I'm wrong about lots of things, it might be best if I take a step back with the homework and stuff. I mean this is a big fuck up and she's only 7! I don't want to make any worse mistakes.

It's a minefield all this and you do your best and even then it turns out you've fucked it all up more often than not. I can't help DD with physical stuff for various reasons but I always felt I was pretty OK at the schoolwork type things but you know, so much for that. Makes you think, you know, what do I have to offer. Leave it to the professionals I guess and keep out of it.

Feeling really crap about this TBH. One little thing and I've managed to cock it all up. I thought so long and hard as well before telling her that it should be recognise. What a twat.

When I took my Maths and English tests before embarking on my PGCE there were people retaking the English test who were about to embark on careers as English teachers. I found that odd.

Virginia how is 'recognize' a preference? It's wrong, in UK English. It's correct in US English. It's not just a case of what you fancy, surely?

"Wrong" according to who? Not wrong according to the OED.