To not want a child who has been expelled for serious physical offences in my child's class?

[Iguanaleader]

Name changed of obvious reasons.

Child has stabbed a teacher with a compass, threatened a teacher with a knife at previous school (we know someone there and child is open about it) and generally swears and spits at staff and is disruptive in lessons.

Child has been at my child's school two days and has already spat in a teachers face and is very disruptive in lessons.

My child has sn including hypersensitivity and came home and cried last night because a) dc1 is frightened and the child is parading round the classroom correcting children's work, shouting etc and b) the noise physically hurts to dc.

I know they have to recieve an education but surely if a child is expelled from a school for physical violence there are more suitable options than just banging them into another class in another school where they will no doubt be expelled and shifted on again.

It's not fair on the child being expelled or anyone else in the class.

I know iabu but would you honestly want them someone who had threatened someone with a knife and physically attacked teachers in your children's class?

YANBU

Schools have to accept the child, it's awful.
Ds's teachers time is largely taken up trying to deal with two very disruptive boys. He hasn't learnt a lot this year.

Exactly bike it's about balancing the 2. Unfortunatly schools seem to be quite bad at balancing childrens safety and behaviour.

After the last incident one of the HT (there were 2 both part time) told me this boy has a right to an education(he was in school but was in exclusion at this point) but couldn't answer the fact that dd has a right to be safe. The kept offering the same plan they had offered before, that didn't work. Dd was the one who eventually who said that if the school put him back in the classroom with the same plan that they always did, she would not go back to class. We backed her. only then was he given a 1-2-1. Since the not have further threaten dd, if she told anyone he had assured her the police backed us.

As I said he know we will contact the police again. So he leave her alone. Not because of the 1-2-1

It's not the schools who 'bury their heads in the sand'! Do you think the head at that school wanted to accept this child? Do you think the teachers want them disrupting their teaching and the rest of the children's learning? No, certainly not. The pressure from the LEA to take them is enormous because there just aren't the places / money to support all the children who have extra needs. It's a lose-lose-lose situation for the school, the existing pupils and the child concerned.

We had one girl in our reception class who was completely unable to talk and could only stand with support from an adult. She was totally spaced out due to brain damage from epilepsy and the medication she was taking to prevent further epileptic fits. She liked similar stimuli to that my three month old is currently interested in (think play mat toys). She could be violent too because she didn't know her own strength (she was above average height / weight). We weren't even given an extra adult to support this child, who was like a baby (and obviously still in nappies) - the school chose to pay extra for someone. It took until February half term to find her a place in a school that could properly support and nurture her needs. It was tragic seeing her knowing she would be so much better off in a different environment. Her parents were desperate and knew a mainstream primary school was no place for her but they were desperate for the break. Don't blame the schools.

I'm aware schools don't have a choice.
That situation isn't fair on anyone let alone the child Magical :(

Schools have very little option when it comes to taking expelled pupils; they are forced to take them and then when the child continues to be violent they are blamed for not addressing his needs.
Keep a record of his behaviour; consult the school and co operate with them but keep up the pressure. He clearly needs SN support; ask how much TA support he is receiving and what strategies are being used to protect the other children.
It is grossly unfair on all concerned, and is partly the result of special needs schools being closed and their pupils being taught in mainstream schools, a totally disastrous policy: 'Every child is a teacher of special needs.' No, they are not.
Keep the school on side but contact the LEA regularly and ask what is being done to deal with this problem. I would suggest contacting your MP, particularly if he/she is new; they need to know how these problems impact on schools and their pupils. Ofsted will simply blame the school.

You certainly need to make an appointment to speak to the head and ask what they propose to do about it. The school has a Duty of Care to your child and they have failed.
If you do not get a satisfactory response then you need to contact the LEA and the School Governors.
It would also help if you got other parents on-side and presented a united front.
The school is obviously not equipped to meet this disruptive child's needs - but that isn't your problem to solve.

If the noise is causing pain then shouldn't the school need to find a solution due to your child's SEN?

My friends ds 8 sounds exactly like that boy, he has been excluded from school due to similar incidents, resulting in a permanent exclusion. Basically this has happened all if a sudden since the transition from infant school to junior, the school have had a high staff turnover. He told my friend that tgere were too many changes, he çoukd not cope. He is waiting to see developmental paed re suspected ASD with PDD. He is now at a PRU, the teacher straightway there told my friend that he could possibly have ASD, why that was not picked up in his old school. The school should be on to it, calling in professionals, to help this boy, I'd he can't cope in the mainstream environment, then he needs specialist schooling. He should have a statement or EHCP, or school should be applying for one. Tgey should also be interventions to keep the boy and other children safe.

Yea, as others have said, in a secondary that is exclusion behaviour.

OP I understand your concern . I was once bullied from Infants 1 (Year 1) to Junior 3 (Year 5) and I snapped, in a sewing lesson .. Went for her with scissors , (My aim was never to physically stab her, it was to cut her bloody hair off) .. Since infants she had been jealous of my hair and pretty bows . My Mother even BOUGHT her some bloody ribbons in hope she would lay off Me. I snapped come Junior 5 .

Anyway back to your situation . The boy should be in a school like we have round here, for violent, aggresive children . Perhaps there isn#t one in your area but sounds like there needs to be .

PS so I don't sound like a psycho ... all those years she loved giving a plait a pull or a ponytail etc . . hence I thought right , you will have NO HAIR . I was stopped i my attempt and then the shit storm begun .

Yes I agree, mabey mainstream might not be ok for him, there are special schools for emotional behavioural disorders, my friend has applied to the LEA for her ds to go to the local one.

Exactly, its all about money isen't it. Specialist school places cost the LEA around 20k, but a mainstream place costs around 5k, so yes, the pressue the LEA puts on schools must be high. But at the same time, they have to ensure the children's safety too, if they cannot cope than they should put it back to the LEA who have a legal duty to find the child the right education for their needs. Yes the parents of the boy need to fight the LEA too.

most likely a reduced or offsite time table for a violent child which means he would likely be roaming the streets for most of the week.

not true - he would have to stay away from public places in school hours or the parents would be fined, and don't make the assumption that the parents are rubbish because the boy is violent.

Exactly, muminhants, my friend was basically under house arrest when her ds was excluded, so no he was not roaming the streets. They are lovely people, they have a dd 10 who is not like that, so cannot be the parents. I have known them since ds was 2, my dd was the same age, we met at preschool, I always knew something was not right with him. My dd has ASD, he was exhibiting at the time, similar traits, but when she entered Reception, started displaying badly, with the support of mainstream, she was moved to a specialist ASD school where she is thriving. He did not really display until, the transition from infant to junior school, Yr3, Easter time.

Just want to offer support to the teachers posting who have suffered at the hands of these poor regulations.

I might be wrong, but there's a lot of talk about 'what the school should be doing' - I haven't noticed a single post asking about parental responsibility. What are the parents of these violent bullies doing?

It's very sad to read about so many children being failed by the system, especially the victims who can't get away.

I'm bear no ill will to the child by the way.
As Mum with an SN child myself I'm sick of fighting the bloody system.

I know Iguanleader, I was soooooo lucky that dd mainstream headteacher was on the ball, and had an adult dd with ASD, she fought the LEA for dd to have a place at the ASD school, I thank her with all my heart, as she is a changed girl, she is happy, calmer and achieving academically. My friends ds needs a similar school, that can help him cope with his behavioiur, and help him flourish. Mainstream school isen't always the right place for children with SN.

Champagne yes some behaviour is a result of bad parenting, but not all. Mabey that boy is not in the right educational environment, his behaviour is a result of him becoming stressed and not being able to cope like my friends ds. My friend tried all sorts of parenting, rewards, time out, smacking, punishing all did not work. Since they are going down the ASD route and reading about it, their parenting and the way they approach it with their ds has altered drastically, he is a lot calmer at home.

I don't understand why kids like this have so many excuses made for them, are allowed to bully others and make them miserable etc.

It happened in my primary school and permanetly affected me. Mind you, lots of other stuff was going on for me too, but for some reason the naughty/violent kid got away with stuff whereas the quiet terrified chid (me) just got bullied by the teachers too for crying, 'making a fuss', and basically ignored. Except when they wanted to laugh at me. Unlike this child, I didn't choose to take my problems out on others. I'm sick of this sort of thing - why are damaged/sensitive children ignored, ridiculed, and later in mental health services the same? Whilst the bully who's actually being violent and taking out their problems on others gets excuses made all the way. What is wrong with people?

I do think he should be helped, btw, just can't understand the school/LEA/general society action/view on this sort of thing. Why do they care about his needs to the exclusion of others? You don't need to be 'hypersensisitve' to worry about getting stabbed!

Apologies, that wasn't helpful to OP, hit a very raw nerve.

However, surely there is something to do with protecting the other children? What about DBS checks and risk assesments and all the rest? How does this square with them?

What happens legally if a child assualts someone - do they just get left to it?!

It makes me so cross that children so young display this behaviour and the government don't recognise that if they threw every penny at them they would save themselves an absolute fortune in the long run, not only for that individual but also the future victims.

Op I'm really sorry, it sounds awful. If your DC are displaying such anguish at school and the school aren't supporting that appropriately I would be inclined to start summer early.

The fact that you can choose to not retaliate or behave in the same way means you are not the same as the children who do not have that choice.

Due to lack of funding and training, often situations come down to conflicting needs. Needs which immediately impact on both parties.

Remove the child and often there is nowhere to send them so they are Denied an education for the sake of others. An education which the other children get to have.

Keep the child there so that they can access education and the other children are impacted either by disruption or violence.

At the end of the day, it isn't about making excuses. Most children who are acting out have very valid reasons. It's about lack of funding to make sure that all children can access quality education safely.

I'm sorry that you had to experience what you did as a child. I think though that if the teachers were reacting and behaving as you described the blame lies with them. Even if they were stuck between a rock and a hard place there are steps they can take and they are always accountable for their own actions.

Exactly soap p, my friends ds is only 8, he doesent target particular chikdren, when he cannot cope his mealtdowns are violent and aggressive. He will be violent to people, furniture, children. No it's not an excuse but an explanation.