to ask how you will be affected by the budget announcements?

[manicinsomniac]

Sorry if there's another thread about this, I can only see lots of speculative ones.

Now that it's announced ... I admit I'm struggling to get my head around it. I don't think it's as bad as I thought? I don't think it can be that good though? I don't think there's a single thing in it that affects me. I'm not sure about any of that though because I find it all quite confusing!

So, ordinary people from ordinary families/households - how are you going to be affected, if at all?

I'd like to take back my last post, as I think people who actually use public services usually are appreciative of the staff on the front line.

Ellie, if you have a severe mental illness you don't get to choose..honestly. It simply isn't a case of "pull yourself together" in my friend's case. She also has ongoing physical problems to go with her mental health issues.

Otherwise I agree that you make the best of what life throws at you.

At this moment in time for me that means not working and claiming benefits while I sort out the crap education my son is getting. This so called education means he doesn't sleep, he is very challenging and his self esteem is poor. I won't mention the numerous school calls which my previous employer was not happy about.

When his education is settled then making the best of life will mean going back to work and earning enough to not need benefits of any kind. My job is well enough paid that I won't need anything.

Sometimes you don't get to choose and we should be supporting people in those situations and not condemning them.

Ellie so what it your parents were failed at school and are unable to read or write? How do you suggest they provide this education at home?
Funny you should ask that. There is a gentleman set up a business selling crates. He would go around in a van taking away broken wooden crates from businesses and scavenging from skips, repair them, paint them, and sell them to businesses who needed crates. He would pass for a builder or a farmer or a gypsy. Not a businessman. He worked with his hands and couldn't read or write, but he knew how to run his business. I came across him because he sold his business for millions, built a huge house with a swimming pool and a gymnasium, and employed tutors to teach his children over and above what they received at the local school. Yes, he could do that only because he had been successful doing what he did, but in answer to your question, if you know what the problem is, that's half the solution. If you know that you need to provide resources to educate you child because you cannot do it yourself and the sate is piss poor at it, then put in the time and effort to achieve your goal.

Most people give up, or worse, don't even try because they think it's too hard.

Yep...the state education system is doing a piss poor job of educating my child. I am not giving up on him and am insisting that the Local Authority do their job.

I am trying to make the changes for him. It might not count in some folks eyes though as I have to claim Carers Allowance while doing so.

My son compartmentalizes life, he cannot for the life of him understand why he has homework as that's "school stuff". therefore getting in a tutor isn't going to cut it. I put the time in instead to make the LA find a suitable education setting for him. It's taken four months to get them to see and agree that the right setting is not mainstream.

If my child gets the right support now then he will transition into work with far fewer problems in the future.

Alfieisnoisy we all know the are exceptions where life is very challenging, but pulling out those exceptions and saying, "See, there's the mistake in your argument." is bullshit. If the premiss of your argument is that those on welfare cannot work or look after themselves because they are all disabled and need to be provided for by those who are working, that is clearly disingenuous. Your argument only holds water in the specific case of someone with a debilitating illness. Not exactly your average welfare recipient in this country really.

Let us try a different way to help you understand, Ellie. There are not enough jobs, and as we exploit poorer peoole abroad to make all our goods(who wouldn't be exploited if they had drive or ambition ) we have very little manufacturing. What do you suggest that everyone does?

Not only do they have to have a job, but they have to have a well paid job, so even if they both work full time it might not be enough. I thought the speel was it 'make work pay' for 'hard working families' This is clearly not the case as there is a long wait until wage increases meet the amount that many have lost.

Yep...the state education system is doing a piss poor job of educating my child. I am not giving up on him and am insisting that the Local Authority do their job.

I wouldn't have expected anything different. I do not however see it at the LAs job to educate my children. I see it as mine and my partners job to educate our children.

I am trying to make the changes for him. It might not count in some folks eyes though as I have to claim Carers Allowance while doing so.

You sound like you have your priorities exactly right in your life.

My son compartmentalizes life, he cannot for the life of him understand why he has homework as that's "school stuff". therefore getting in a tutor isn't going to cut it.

Have you thought about teaching him to play games? There is a lot of mental acrobatics and nuance in strategy games for example (like Risk) and a whole world of business maths in Monopoly. He may not pick up the maths but he may well grasp that there is an underlying dynamic to strategic thinking, and that if he follows certain gameplay he increases his chances of winning. This natural instinct to see the underlying dynamic may be a valuable tool in his future.

That's just one thought. Education does not need to be about desks, books and homework. Education is about fun and discovery. Follow his passions and feed them. If it's dinosaurs this week, find out about dinosaurs. If it's volcanoes next week build a volcano. I hope I'm not trying to tell you how to suck eggs, because I see how passionate you are about making the world work for him. It's just some people don't get it. Look for what works. Who cares if it didn't come out of someone's curriculum book.

If my child gets the right support now then he will transition into work with far fewer problems in the future.

I don't know the specifics of your child's autism, but if he has the ability to focus obsessively, he can be taught to use that as a tool. Certainly if he expresses his frustrations as anger, that is more challenging than say, just switching off. But the ability to focus obsessively I think is a vastly under utilised tool.

Best of luck. You sound like you're doing exactly what I'd be doing. But this has nothing to do with the world around us being an awful place, or life being unjust to us.

pink

Without getting into the whys and wherefors of geopolitics, the exploitation of foreign labour on foreign soil has nothing to do with drive or ambition of individuals. Those with drive and ambition succeed within the systems they find themselves. Those with little make do. Those with none are ghettoised.
Exploitation of one nation by another is a matter of money and power. The greed of the more powerful nations people is fed by the weaker nations people,being exploited.

I'm regard to jobs, that's plain bullshit. People migrate from all over Europe to do the jobs native Brits do not wish to do. I can point to at least four superstores and to fast food outlets that are recruiting in my town, and that is only within the restricted parameters you have set defining employment as an employer pays an employee for his time and labour. You completely fail to recognise or acknowledge that it is possible to earn money without establishing an employer/employee relationship. If that is the way most people think, that goes a long way to explain why there is such dependancy on welfare in this country. We need to educate those on welfare. Sadly in my experience (for the short period of time I could tolerate it), they do,not wish to be educated.

"Time for bed." Said Zebedee.

Some fantastic posts from the likes of pinkstrawberries, Micksy, Fairylea, Alfieisnoisy et al

Unfortunately, there are other posters on here who manifest the 'darker' side of humanity. With the best will in the world, capitalism is predicated on scarcity. This 'scarcity value' is rewarded financially - however, when in reality that which is valued isn't actually scarce (eg because there are plenty of talented, energetic people who - if given the opportunity - would be able to perform the required 'elite' profit-making tasks) the duplicity begins. The unlucky masses have to be suppressed and made to feel worthless, inferior and beholden to their 'betters'. The 'winners' try to convince the 'losers' that only they, through talent and determination, can 'do the job'. Bullshit!

Society can choose to protect the weak, vulnerable and unlucky and build a truly sustainable, civilised society... or its misguided 'elite' can try to rid itself of the 'scum' that forms the structurally-essential base of its economic and socially hierarchical pyramid....if the latter, then stand back and watch that pyramid topple ....the higher you are, the harder the fall (and the meek shall indeed inherit the earth!).

We have 5 children and a household income of about £33000. We will find ourselves approximately
£12,000 a year worse off! Yep, £1000 a month!

This includes the reduction in tax credits (about £200 a month) and us having to pay "average local market rent" for our council house (currently £600 a month will rise to £1400 a month).

I have absolutely no idea what we will do!

We will be better off as DCs are grown up now so DH and I have only ourselves to support. I do, however, feel so sorry for those who will struggle

I do have to say, however, I work in a very deprived area and see an awful lot more abuse of the system than most people here seem to think is normal. I know I don't know all the ins and outs of other people's affairs but I do think there is more fraud than is acknowledged here (although probably still less than the Daily Mail says)

1400 is not 'real rent'. It is artifically inflated

Fairylea . I thought your post was very moving and am sorry.

Generally I am of the tough as old boots variety that says you make your luck and get your nose down. It worked very successfully for me and DH. But right now I have a little more perspective after having it all work so well for 30 years or so. Happily my perspective is temporary and not life changing or threatening.

Four weeks ago I broke my ankle. My mobility is impaired and everything takes twice as long as it did. I've another two weeks of this and probably three months to get back to full speed. It is exhausting and debilitating and I am struggling to work a full week at work and get everything done at home that needs doing. My children are older, fit and happy teenagers, and my life is not difficult in any way.

That wasn't meant as a complaint it's merely an inconvenience but it has made me see how dealing with a disability (even a mild one) wears you down, tires you out and generally just saps your energy and shuts down your get up and go.

So, no, it isn't all about determination and attitude because they get ground down when you are running on less than four cylinders.

I hope that wasn't too off piste, it was meant to be constructive.

people on an income of £33,000 who pay market rent and who can't afford 1 child, let alone 5 because they pay real rent?

This was us.

After we had dd, dh lost his job and we had to move in with my parents for a year. 4 adults in a 2 bed house with child. They came to do an interview to put us on the housing list and we were told 2-3 years. Dh found a new job and we rented privately. We were skint , so I went back to work when dd was 18 months. We had a 7 year gap in our children because we couldnt afford another til then. Had we have been given a HA house we could have. I would have liked more kids, but can't afford them. I didn't feel badly done to at the time. It was just how it was. But sometimes when I read these threads it does irk me a bit.

This is what I can't reconcile in my head. We had to make decisions we didn't want to because we had to pay full market rent. Other people who earned the same or even a bit more had more choice.

I hate the situation we are in because none of it sits right. The way it was wasn't right. Rectifying isn't working out either.

raggety

Spot on.

Don't miss understand my posts, and if. I have been ambiguous, my apologies. I in no way condone the status quo. I merely point out that the system exists, and there are the rules by which the current game is played, which many (most?) do not understand. The way you are told the world around you works is vastly different from the way the world around you actually works.

From your brief paragraph, I'd say your summary of the actors, their actions and their motives is fairly close to mine. But like all games, there are many solutions to a successful outcome for the individual. There is only one solution for a successful outcome for the whole of society, and having studied history, if past is prologue, that solution is not one I would wish to see in my children's lifetime.

We differ in your belief that an individual cannot succeed, and I contest that they can. This may come down to ones definition of success. I'd suggest that if one were happy with ones life, safe in ones home, secure in ones future access to resources, and free from the threat of tyranny of others, that might be somewhat close to what I may consider success.

So, on the premiss, the question is how does one succeed?

The traditional route followed by most in education-good paying job-subservience to the system-saving for ones old age. Other routes may be removal of oneself from dependence on the system. Do not play the game. Or move to another country where the game, it's actors, and it's rules are different. You have already benefitted from the education system and the economic bias of living with this system, why not transfer those to another system where they give you greater benefit and resource?

As I said, I can understand, 'I was born here, it's my home' mentality, and 'we must stand together and fight the evil doers.' But, as it has never succeeded at any time in history, and has always resulted in immense depravation and loss of life (and the world has faced this many many times in recorded history); I would suggest securing ones self and ones family is a far more prudent course of action than martyring them for the cause.

Before the system collapses, they will always take us to war. It is no coincidence that the drums of war are being banged in Whitehall, and the televisions and newspapers are changing the public psyche. We are being conditioned to accept this outcome, and it is not the rich who will starve, and it is not their children who will fight.

People need to wake the F up and see what is happening in the world around them. Keeping them focused on a class war, both distracts them and prevents them taking action out of fear.

Egosum- I wouldn't say anything. Everyone has their own story and reasons for being where they are and sometimes life throws you a curve ball.

What if you can afford your kids and then one of you dies suddenly? What if one of you is in a traffic accident and becomes disabled and can't work? One of your children is born severely disabled and needs 24/7 care? Should people who have kids when they can afford them not receive help when they fall on bad times? Children are expensive and it doesn't take much to change your life in such a way that you go from comfortable to struggling.

My partner and I were both working when we met and I have my two children from a previously relationship. We could afford them. We decided to have a baby and I gave up work. Things were a bit tight but we could just afford it on his wage by being careful. No benefits at all. Then a few months ago he had a call from Children's Services who'd become involved with his ex for various reasons and his two children came to live with us immediately and here they will stay. We needed help from tax credits which we got.

Neither of our ex's will pay maintenance (CSA CMS can't help- self employed/hiding earnings) and we are struggling. His children need him at home as they have suffered emotional difficulties and have other needs/attachment issues, so he now works somewhere between part and full time and I have the children when he's not here. If I go back to work even full time our childcare bill will be more than I can earn (a newborn baby, a pre schooler and 3 other children under 10 needing before after school care).

Regarding the rent. We have a council house and the rent is low. We haent planned around paying market rent and have a secure tenancy so never expected that to change. If we knew it was temporary we may have done things differently.

We'd love to move to a cheaper area but we simply can't. It's not that easy when you have children with separated parents. We can't move areas as my ex and my partner's ex both have contact Orders for the children and to be honest his children absolutely couldn't move schools now as it would be so very detrimental to them after all the recent emotional harm they've suffered. They've just been taken off their mum.

I know this is just my story but everyone has their own circumstances and it's not as easy as move or get another job. :(

Efosumquisum...What do you say to people on an income of £33,000 who pay market rent and who can't afford 1 child, let alone 5 because they pay real rent?

I totally agree with pinkstrawberries response to this comment - it is not 'real rent'.

The economy is a human construct that should serve the priorities and needs of society. With silly house prices we lost the plot due to the over-commodification of what should have been homes. A home is a basic human right. When people have economic constraints lifted from them, modern history has repeatedly shown that, when given a choice over their own fertility, most choose to limit their family size ...hence the reason why many modern societies (eg Belgium, Japan, Italy, Finland, Germany, Switzerland...) have birth rates below replacement level.

When I was growing up in the 1970s I was from a family of 3 children and we felt as though we were unusual. Many mothers then stopped at home and a father could earn a bread-winners salary and property prices and other costs did not prohibit people having more than two children. Yet most people chose, (when freed from financial constraints and given control over fertility) to have just a couple of children. So, I find it hard to believe that now most 'hardworking families' are really chafing at the bit to have more children and that most would have three or more if given the choice. I think that there may be some unfortunate individuals who have had more children than they can cope with (assisted by the benefits regime) but I think that this is proportionately an absolutely negligible number. I chose to have 6 children and that decision was not informed by the economic context - I would make the same choices again, regardless of the CTC context.

Better off. Doesn't sit happily with me though.

My understanding of the public sector 1% cap isn't on individuals, it's applied to the total remuneration bill per organisation. So some people will get more that 1% and others will get less.