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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think poor students will still be able to go to uni and now it will be fairer on ALL students !

359 replies

bereal7 · 08/07/2015 15:01

I've read a few ridiculous comments from posters complaining that their children won't be able to afford university. This is bullocks ; the loans will still be there and even higher now. On top of this, they don't have to be repaid until you are earning more than £21k. Therefore, there is no reason why poorer students can't afford university.

If anything, this is now a fair system. It was not right that some students could get such high grants and loans that they don't have to work whilst other only got the bare minimum and have to work - sacrificing their studies - just because their parents earnt more. Those who didn't have to work would be more likely to pass and have higher paying jobs but not have to pay back as much. It was a ridiculous and unfair system which penalised people whose parents were earning more on paper and I welcome this change. Everyone who wants to , and gets the grades, can go to uni but will have to pay back the loans the same as everyone else once they graduate. Aibu to think poorer students will still be able to go university?

So annoyed by the comments and hysteria so I'm sure there's a few typos in there - apologies

OP posts:
TinklyLittleLaugh · 08/07/2015 23:49

Just an observation but my DS is only eligible for the minimum loan. Fair enough, we ensure he has enough to live on, but we have three other kids, including his sister, who is also starting Uni in September. DS feels bad about us shelling out so much, so he also has a part time job.

DS's best mate comes from a family that does not really work; no obvious illnesses or disabilities and I have known them for nearly twenty years. Mate was eligible for full grant, big bursary from Uni for being poor student and another bursary for being poor student with good grades. Mate just laughed at DS getting a job; he is very well funded. Now frankly, if anyone needs a bit of a push to develop a work ethic, it is that lad. But he doesn't need to, does he?

dodobookends · 09/07/2015 00:03

If they know that so many student loans are never going to be paid back in full, then what's the point in charging them in the first place?

Why not just give part of it as a bloody grant and be done with it?

PurpleSwift · 09/07/2015 00:08

Lol. I love all the "get a job" posts. Where are these jobs you speak of?
You know there are already almost 800,000 looking for work as jsa claimants as it is? There aren't enough jobs for us all!

GraysAnalogy · 09/07/2015 00:18

People need educating more on uni and fees, many people are still under the impression you need to save forever to send your kids to uni

My parents are working class and probably didn't earn 20k between them, they didn't give me a penny towards uni. I went though. I have debt, but i barely see it from my wage. it goes straight out. I can't miss something I never had.

TinklyLittleLaugh · 09/07/2015 00:26

Purple I agree, there are pitifully few jobs paying enough money for someone to live on. But neither of my two older kids have ever struggled to find something to put a few extra quid in their pockets.

They have washed dishes, they have waitressed, they have worked in bars. DS currently has something quite cushy related to a sport he loves and DD has just got a job at a new supermarket about to open near us.

They have also learned that minimum wage is a bloody hard way to make your money. Hopefully it will make them study harder.

Lostlight · 09/07/2015 07:05

You are the student, currently at university whose parents bought you a car and insured it right? The one who has financial help from your parents?

Is that right?

Come back when you live in the real world.

Headofthehive55 · 09/07/2015 07:30

Not sure I understand your post lostlight

MaggieJoyBlunt · 09/07/2015 07:35

Dawn I've noticed you always have to bring disability into every welfare discussion even when it's not relevant. GO was pretty clear that disabled people would be left alone.

It isn't clear that they WILL be 'left alone'.

DSA has survived but it seems that Special Support Grant might have been abolished.

TiredButFine · 09/07/2015 07:37

Ah the good old days of student grants for those from low income families. I had a grant in the 90's. It didn't cover my rent. I worked two jobs (both of which required that I do level 1 NVQ work). But my favourite memory was a Banker's son on my course commenting "oh you get a grant cheque? I wish I was paid to be here like you are"
He didn't have a job. He had a car. He had catered accomodation. He wasn't eating boiled carrots and potatoes bought with his last £1.50 for three days in a row. He wasn't late when the bus didn't come. He didn't have NVQ work on top of uni work. He didn't dash out of uni to go to work an evening shift.

TheWordFactory · 09/07/2015 07:49

The removal of the student grants is a sop to the squeezed middle.

Their DC have to take out loans ( can't afford to pay up front) so why shouldn't the DC of the poor do the same?

ZazieEnElMetro · 09/07/2015 07:51

Spot on TheWordFactory. Divide and rule 101. Rather than make it better for the squeezed middle, they will make the squeezed middle feel better by kicking the poor. It's like that old class sketch by John Cleese and the Two Ronnies.

AyeAmarok · 09/07/2015 08:40

No problem with this at all.

I am always baffled by how misunderstood student loan debt seems to be on this forum.

I have one, a massive one (low income parents). I have a decent job but doubt I'll ever fully repay it.

I have a mortgage, and it makes not a jot of difference to mortgages. Saying otherwise is scaremongering catastrophisizing.

it was very recently I got a mortgage.

Bank manager: Any debts?
DP: No
Me: I have a large student loan.
Bank Manager: No, we don't count those.

So please stop implying the young will be "saddled with debt".

Dawndonnaagain · 09/07/2015 08:51

Sigh. They will be saddled with debt, they are taken into consideraton
You were lucky Aye, oldest ds is a bank manager.

chibi · 09/07/2015 09:11

I graduated in 1999 with $40000 student loan debt. That was the equivalent then of what someone on the minimum wage would earn in four years (gross)

I had no help from my parents, other than words of encouragement. It wasn't easy but student loans supplemented with work made university a possibility for me- I would not have been able to go otherwise.

It did impact the university I chose- I did not consider one in a major city because I knew I wouldn't be able to afford tuition and housing as it was far more expensive to live there

Living extremely frugally meant I was able to pay it off relatively quickly.

It is not possible to fund students to go to university, not with the number who choose to go now. The idea that they are all doing underwater fire prevention courses at some backwater 4th rate former poly is questionable- I imagine many are doing solid academic degrees with a view to future employment.

I doubt we will ever go back to a time when a tiny percentage go to uni and thus can be fully funded

Viviennemary · 09/07/2015 15:37

I don't see the problem with this at all. Because the paying back will depend on what the student earns when they start work. Whether or not student loans are a good method of funding Uni fees is a different thing altogether. But if it's loans it shouldn't depend on the parents income.

MaggieJoyBlunt · 09/07/2015 15:41

I have a mortgage, and it makes not a jot of difference to mortgages. Saying otherwise is scaremongering catastrophisizing

it was very recently I got a mortgage.

It must vary by lender then, because in my recent DIP interview (didn't proceed, admittedly) the repayments were taken into account for affordability calcs. I gathered it was part of the new approach to affordability.

It is rather rude of you to brand that scaremongering. It's fact.

MaggieJoyBlunt · 09/07/2015 15:42

But if it's loans it shouldn't depend on the parents income.

The amount of Student Loan available to borrow has always depended on parental income.

Gemauve · 09/07/2015 16:01

t must vary by lender then, because in my recent DIP interview (didn't proceed, admittedly) the repayments were taken into account for affordability calcs. I gathered it was part of the new approach to affordability.

But yesterday's changes won't change the monthly repayments for (for anyone other than people earning approaching six figures) for the first twenty years. The repayments are linked to income, not to the outstanding balance, and even people who previously received grants will have had at least 27k of fee debt, which they almost certainly won't have cleared by the time they get a mortgage. Hence anything that was true six months ago is true today, and vice versa.

Gemauve · 09/07/2015 16:02

I doubt we will ever go back to a time when a tiny percentage go to uni and thus can be fully funded

There never was such a time: grants were always means tested by parental income.

Caveat: there may have been a very small window in the early 1960s when this wasn't true.

Headofthehive55 · 09/07/2015 16:08

A student loan does matter for the purposes of a mortgage, it always did. Not perhaps in the formal sense, but if you know you will be paying out a little extra , I assume most most will be sensible enough to take this into account when deciding how much to borrow. When you set a budget for the household, it will play a part in the calculations.

MaggieJoyBlunt · 09/07/2015 16:13

But yesterday's changes won't change the monthly repayments for (for anyone other than people earning approaching six figures) for the first twenty years

For a risk-adverse 18 year old from a poor home, it could be an intimidating prospect, though. Even when people understand the maths, they make decisions emotionally as well as rationally. The fear factor is hard to quantify when considering young people who have little safety net.

And SLs were entirely disregarded for mortgages until recently, so there's that additional change.

Frostox · 09/07/2015 16:17

So the way I see it is:

  1. All students can take out maintenance loan.
  2. The expectation is that this loan is not enough to cover living costs so this must be topped up by either parents, working or the government.
  3. The government used to provide this top up in the form of a grant for those from the poorest families.

Now, however, that grant will be a loan. So people whose parents can't afford to top it up will leave uni in over ten grand more debt than their peers. That doesn't seem very fair to me!

Also, please bear in mind that some universities (inc oxford and cambridge) prohibit students from working in term time and strongly advise against it in vacations, so the grant really was a lifeline for some.

Headofthehive55 · 09/07/2015 16:25

You are forgetting those whose parents can't afford to or refuse to top the amount up but the govt says they earn enough. These aren't entitled to this extra loan.
Those are the ones in real hardship.

MaggieJoyBlunt · 09/07/2015 16:33

You are forgetting those whose parents can't afford to or refuse to top the amount up but the govt says they earn enough. These aren't entitled to this extra loan.
Those are the ones in real hardship.

My (well off) mother refused to pay my contribution because I refused to pursue science. But I don't think getting competitive about who is in the worst hardship is very helpful, TBH. I don't even agree that that IS worse hardship.

Frostox · 09/07/2015 16:49

So that was actually my exact situation, I received no parental support as well as no grants, and it was (/is, cos I'm still paying off the overdraft!) really shit. But just because it was shit for me I do not want to make it shitter for other people struggling just in the name of fairness!!