To think poor students will still be able to go to uni and now it will be fairer on ALL students !

[bereal7]

I've read a few ridiculous comments from posters complaining that their children won't be able to afford university. This is bullocks ; the loans will still be there and even higher now. On top of this, they don't have to be repaid until you are earning more than £21k. Therefore, there is no reason why poorer students can't afford university.

If anything, this is now a fair system. It was not right that some students could get such high grants and loans that they don't have to work whilst other only got the bare minimum and have to work - sacrificing their studies - just because their parents earnt more. Those who didn't have to work would be more likely to pass and have higher paying jobs but not have to pay back as much. It was a ridiculous and unfair system which penalised people whose parents were earning more on paper and I welcome this change. Everyone who wants to , and gets the grades, can go to uni but will have to pay back the loans the same as everyone else once they graduate. Aibu to think poorer students will still be able to go university?

So annoyed by the comments and hysteria so I'm sure there's a few typos in there - apologies

[PunkHedgehog]

As for the argument that repayments are only 9%, can you imagine the uproar there would be if income tax were increased to 29% for people earning over £21K?

[bereal7]

Students with a household income of less than £25k would be getting £8k plus grants from their universities. If they can't survive on this , their doing something wrong.

It's those from middle - incomes who will suffer as they don't get a good enough loan and in some cases, their parents can't afford to help them - despite what the government thinks. Do you not care about them because they are not disabled or from poor parents?

Dawn I've noticed you always have to bring disability into every welfare discussion even when it's not relevant. GO was pretty clear that disabled people would be left alone.

[Headofthehive55]

There are fast track degrees around the world, so it can be done. It may or may not be right for all students but I do believe it would be good for the poorer student. It's all about choice at the end of he day.

[GeorgeYeatsAutomaticWriter]

There are fast track degrees around the world, so it can be done. It may or may not be right for all students but I do believe it would be good for the poorer student. It's all about choice at the end of he day.

But there aren't similar requirements for research productivity in other university systems.

[Headofthehive55]

Perhaps it will lead to more students living at home to study as a way of reducing cost. It not always possible I know but that might help. Education costs, it's about reducing the impact of that cost on students.

[Headofthehive55]

Employ more staff to do research?

[TheOriginalSteamingNit]

Good point that some subjects involve more contact time than others - but as anyone who wants to actually do well in arts or humanities subject knows, you need that time when you're not in lectures for reading and research. Of course, this perception will probably have exactly the impact on the humanities that the government hopes....

[GeorgeYeatsAutomaticWriter]

So you want teaching staff and research staff?

That rather misses the point of research-led teaching which is the cornerstone of most of the higher ranking universities.

[TheOriginalSteamingNit]

Well I suspect that's just what will happen though George: increasing casualisation so that established staff can do enough for the REF and zero hour contracts for GTAs/VLs.

[GeorgeYeatsAutomaticWriter]

I see your point but I'm not sure, TheOriginal, especially in light of the Teaching Excellence Framework - students are canny enough to demand 'value for money' and being taught by casual labour does not equate to value for money.

[WorktoLive]

I was doing chemistry while working 30 hours a week when I did my part time degree - it did take 5 years though.

[TheOriginalSteamingNit]

Oh god I mustn't even think about the almighty bollocks that is the TEF .. But though, students actually tend to love VLs, in my experience: the casual workforce is so aware of its tenuous status and need to impress, and relatively free from the kind of admin and research requirements of full time staff, as well as quite often young and cool (!) that they do a great job for the time they're there. So I wouldn't necessarily expect that more casualization would lead to more dissatisfaction among students..... Even though it's a horrible and exploitative system for everyone else concerned.

[Dawndonnaagain]

bereal
Of course it's fucking relevant. Oh, and GO hasn't left disabled people alone. He's penalised us, so I strongly suggest you get your facts right before trying to marginalise my stance in public.

[Headofthehive55]

No you just need more staff. Work divided accordingly. A bit like moving from one and a half full time equivalent teachers to two. There are just more of you.

Are they now saying that all students are entitled to a loan of £8000 a year? I think that might be good for the students whose parents do not support them for what ever reason.

[TheOriginalSteamingNit]

Oh, just more of us! Cool! And we can all be afforded, can we?

How come rich students whose parents don't 'support them for whatever reason' should get the same as poor students whose parents can't? Benefits don't work like that, do they?

[Hillingdon]

Dawn, there is no need to be so rude when people ask why you always seem to bring disability into every conversation. It's true though that you seem to think every slight is against you and yours and when people try to look at the overall picture as opposed to your personal circumstances you start swearing at them.

This thread is about something completely different.

[Dawndonnaagain]

No Hillingdon. I do get pissed off with people trying to shut me down though. You hounded me off the boards for a period before. You're not doing it again.
And this does affect students with disabilities.

[Hillingdon]

You are on lots of threads, how can I have hounded you off them. I do have an issue with you bringing disability into everything you can. I recognise you have a unique set of circumstances but the government (who ever they are) aren't out to get you personally. I have never resorted to bad language or felt my view was superior to anyone else's- it's just different.

[TinklyLittleLaugh]

There was a thread about this only recently, posters being shut down when they try to include the perspective of people with disabilities in a discussion. FFS, issues with student funding affect all students, disabled or not; it is incredibly rude and crass to try and exclude anyone from the debate.

[Dawndonnaagain]

I swear, your social mores are not mine. I swear, big deal. I do not feel that I am superior in any way whatsoever and I am aware that the government is not out to get me, although the bloody nonsense about this budget not affecting the disabled is just that, bloody nonsense.
Doesn't mean I can't rail against what they are doing to a relatively large community. Doesn't mean you can shut me down. I have tried a number of times on a number of threads to explain my reasoning, but you, and a select few continue to stick your fingers in your ears and shout rah, rah, rah and try to shut me, and others down.

Tinkly, thank you.

[Headofthehive55]

Yes you would get more tuition fees per year...the amount it costs in fees per degree does not change. It's the living costs you would save. it could be set up that way if the govt was in agreement.

If your parents won't pay, you are in the same place as if they can't are you not? No money. I know it's difficult to imagine when you would care and support your child appropriately but there are parents out there that don't or feel they have too many other commitments. I'm not sure what you can do in that situation. You are rather at their mercy that they will give you some money.

It can be used to control, as mum and dad are paying they sometimes expect a say.

[wigglylines]

"It's those from middle - incomes who will suffer"

Don't make me laugh.

Can't even be bothered to argue with this shite today, it's just too depressing.

[Headofthehive55]

I am glad we get to hear about the perspective from a disabled student, as otherwise how would we know?

[lampygirl]

Only read first and last pages but as a relatively recent graduate, the old system wasn't exactly any better. My parents earned over the threshold so I couldn't get any funding but I have 2 brothers who they were still paying for at home etc so they couldn't afford to keep me in pocket as well, I got £30 per month from them.

I'm aware that wherever you set a threshold there will be some that only just don't make it, but still...

I got a job through uni and did manage to get some funding for other stuff (gym etc but it was free goods/services, not cash) by being good at sport, but these aren't related to income.

I do think disabled students should still get some funding as I imagine many struggle to work. Interestingly, most of my working life has come out of work I did whilst at uni rather than the degree itself. Working whilst studying doesn't have to be an evil...

[Dawndonnaagain]

Head, thank you.