To think poor students will still be able to go to uni and now it will be fairer on ALL students !

[bereal7]

I've read a few ridiculous comments from posters complaining that their children won't be able to afford university. This is bullocks ; the loans will still be there and even higher now. On top of this, they don't have to be repaid until you are earning more than £21k. Therefore, there is no reason why poorer students can't afford university.

If anything, this is now a fair system. It was not right that some students could get such high grants and loans that they don't have to work whilst other only got the bare minimum and have to work - sacrificing their studies - just because their parents earnt more. Those who didn't have to work would be more likely to pass and have higher paying jobs but not have to pay back as much. It was a ridiculous and unfair system which penalised people whose parents were earning more on paper and I welcome this change. Everyone who wants to , and gets the grades, can go to uni but will have to pay back the loans the same as everyone else once they graduate. Aibu to think poorer students will still be able to go university?

So annoyed by the comments and hysteria so I'm sure there's a few typos in there - apologies

"Barriers for WP students are not just about parental income, it's about being from postcodes/schools with very low participation rates in higher education, being the first in your family to go to university, coming from a care background, having disabilities, coming from a disadvantaged ethnic minority with traditionally low participation rates. It's about aspiration and self-belief."

Ok. So how does assessing your parents' income identify these things?

I would hope a tax based system would have better international legislative basis for recovery ...

Ok. So how does assessing your parents' income identify these things?

It doesn't. Universities use other data to get to these students. These students are more likely to come from low-income families and thus face financial as well as other barriers to higher education.

I can see how the other things you mentioned are barriers to getting to
University. I don't see how having to take out a loan is a barrier. Unless you think that where they come from and parental income etc impacts on their ability to get a job and earn the same as the others from their class when they graduate? Surely at that point they're all at the same level?

Unless you think that where they come from and parental income etc impacts on their ability to get a job and earn the same as the others from their class when they graduate? Surely at that point they're all at the same level?

Seriously, have you never considered that family background/parental income affects careers, even for graduates? It absolutely does. It's about being able to rely on mum and dad for a while post-graduation while you try and figure out what's next. It's about the networks and connections that family/school/friendship links can offer. It's about accessing those crucial internships to help you build your career. Middle-class kids are hugely advantaged in this. Can this really never have occurred to you?

"i think that lots of families just above the means test threshold for student finance are not really the kind of 'got the contacts' families that can help with internships and so on, and may not live in the places you need to be to do unpaid work - london, big cities. So i wouldn't think that all those students from families just above the threshold are particularly advantaged in that way."

^This

Our two both did Masters fully funded by us - there was no funding for Masters.

I would go back to the days when I graduated when 10% went fully funded. We do not need so many students, especially not doing crappy degrees at second rate universities.

We need more apprenticeships and vocational courses (what the old polytechnics actually did pretty well)

And so the solution is to make university even more inaccessible and difficult for the very poorest and the most disadvantaged?

I wholeheartedly disagree.

I still don't see why having to get a loan(along with most of the others in your class) that you don't repay until you graduate and earn 21k+ makes university inaccessible. Not having a loan option would make it inaccessible - because then only the people whose mummies and daddies have been saving for university could afford it. Nor do I see how having the same loan as the other people in your class when you all graduate makes you disadvantaged compared to them.

We felt badly done to when mine went in 2012 and had to take out the 9k per year tuition fee loans when the year above paid zero (in our circumstances). This is just appalling turning the grants into loans.

I don't know how it will work but those over the threshold will still have to contribute as their students won't get any additional loans or will they? Hence the rejoicing from some.

I feel sorry for kids from lower income families wanting to continue in education and I don't see how this is going to benefit the treasury when most if these so called loans won't be repaid.

Bumbly presumably because kids for wealthier households will have parental support so won't actually need to take out the same level of loans.

I still don't see why having to get a loan(along with most of the others in your class) that you don't repay until you graduate and earn 21k+ makes university inaccessible. Not having a loan option would make it inaccessible - because then only the people whose mummies and daddies have been saving for university could afford it

Bumble they will have to take out loans twice as big as some (most?) of their classmates.

Whereas now and thankfully, I suppose, mine gets a non repayable grant to help with living costs, plus a bursary from the university. I hope these bursaries will still be available, or are these 'not fair' either?

Let's not mistake this move as being fairer. Education should be free for everyone and help given where needs be to support those wanting an education.

Does your son not get disability allowance to cover extra costs?

Why do people always tout out this line when ever anything about reducing help for people with disabilities comes up?

Many people can not reduce the other essential expensive help they need. Things like being able to get dressed or travel somewhere safely. Even if you get the highest rates possible it's still not enough to fund even half a days carer costs as regularly as you will require.

It can take over a years worth to fund essential equipment things like appropriate wheelchairs. Disability aids are often hugely expensive.

If you have a student loan and go abroad you are still meant to pay it back but it can't be deducted from salary like it is here so some students don't pay. I don't agree that all students who get loans get a heft contribution from parents. Some parents can afford it and others can't. I think this is the fairest way and everyone is treated the same and then pays back when they earn over the £21K.

Sigh.

George :)

Some parents can afford it and others can't yes - the ones who earn more can afford it! Maybe some of them dont - but that's not the issue!

It's not just about earnings. Some people have grandparents who help out or their parents might have had an inheritance. But that doesn't count AFAIK. And it's extremely unfair that only the income of the parent the student lives with is taken into consideration. And most universities have hardship funds.

But, won't the students from higher income families be in the same boat as now. Or will all students be offered the 8K loans? Sorry I don't know the details yet but these loans are still means tested then why is it fairer .

I very much doubt they will be handing 8k per annum to everyone starting university in 2016, considering it's unclear how much of it will actually be paid back.

It's always been a bit unfair. When I went to university there were only mainenance grants if your parents did not earn much and yet many of the parents who could afford to pay did not pay the student! (Although then the fees were free but then only 10 - 15% of people went to university then so a very different world - you can argue why should those who go be subsidised by those who don't to to university).

At least the new scheme is fairer - if your parents won't pay a penny (even if they could afford it) then there is now the same loan available.

Not sure whether the full loan will be available to the children of rich parents who don't pay a penny so we still may be left with inequalities whereas the son of the tax driver who has never declared all his income and thus looks not well off despite the villa in Spain may get the full loan.