To think poor students will still be able to go to uni and now it will be fairer on ALL students !

[bereal7]

I've read a few ridiculous comments from posters complaining that their children won't be able to afford university. This is bullocks ; the loans will still be there and even higher now. On top of this, they don't have to be repaid until you are earning more than £21k. Therefore, there is no reason why poorer students can't afford university.

If anything, this is now a fair system. It was not right that some students could get such high grants and loans that they don't have to work whilst other only got the bare minimum and have to work - sacrificing their studies - just because their parents earnt more. Those who didn't have to work would be more likely to pass and have higher paying jobs but not have to pay back as much. It was a ridiculous and unfair system which penalised people whose parents were earning more on paper and I welcome this change. Everyone who wants to , and gets the grades, can go to uni but will have to pay back the loans the same as everyone else once they graduate. Aibu to think poorer students will still be able to go university?

So annoyed by the comments and hysteria so I'm sure there's a few typos in there - apologies

This is the fairest way. The amount of your loan shouldn't depend on how much your parents earn or don't earn.

Vivienne that isn't what's happening. That's some notional third system you've just dreamt up.

Viv seems to think everyone will be ffered the same amount of loan under the reforms. They won't.

Yes. If you do not earn enough to pay off fully then you should borrow as much as possible. Pay off is 9% above £21k and interest rate is 3%+ inflation. For a salary of £60k and an average loan in excess of £40k this gives a payback rate of less than 6%. Not many people will be paying back and the vast majority of graduates have a differential increase in marginal tax of 9% throughout their working lives. THIS in a society where we USED to accept that graduates contribute more as education has intrinsic value

Come back OP and tell us all about the car your parents bought you as a present!!

I agree with the poster upthread who suggested a graduate tax for those earning over £27k. I would have thought that over their working lifetimes most students would contribute more this way than through the loans structure we now have.

Original 'wealthy' is just over the threshold - it doesn't mean that people have tons of disposable income that they can throw at their 18 year old. This makes it fairer for the majority - because most people's parents will not/will not be able to support their children through university.

chipped I don't remember mentioning a car in this thread and I don't see what it has to do with anything. The point remains that no one should get free money from the state. Ofcourse support should be there (to everyone) but we should all have to pay it back

Are we back to the tyranny of the majority?

The minority who face additional barriers to access higher education deserve additional support. It's not about treating everybody the same - those who are disadvantaged are starting from an entirely different place than your average middle-class kid, even those whose parents earn just over the threshold.

I don't remember mentioning a car in this thread hmm and I don't see what it has to do with anything

So they did buy you a car, then?

Ah - i understand now. So in fact there will still be a means tested part of the loan will there, so that students whose parents are above the threshhold will continue to be expected/assumed to receive some parental support?

As I understand it How, that's basically it. The change will be that poor students will be offered £1000s more per year in loans and no grants.

So it is still accepted that they need more cash to get through to graduation. But they will be obliged to borrow it.

More than their friends from better off homes, that is.

Bumbley Original 'wealthy' is just over the threshold - it doesn't mean that people have tons of disposable income that they can throw at their 18 year old

I know this, as the parent of an 18 year old who is going to university this year and doesn't qualify for a grant! I get that it's relative! I think that her friends who are eligible for some help deserve and should get it, though, and that is not unfair to her or us.

George. If they've got to the stage where they are actually going to university then they have already overcome most of those barriers. Having to take out a loan that you only pay back once you start earning over a certain amount is not a barrier. Your parents earning over a certain amount does not mean you don't face any barriers.

So you're still driving the free car you were given and then moaned about? Seems to me you are coming from a position if reasonable privileges with little understanding of the financial difficulties many people live through.

Howcan I would make it a condition of study that you are going to pay the graduate tax on your worldwide income for the rest of your life. Most counties in the world have tax treaties with the UK so in theory there is a mechanism to look at income earned abroad. I'm not sure about the practicalities of the recovery of the money, but the current student loan system must have something similar.

I work in Widening Participation, bumbley. Forgive me, but your post is rather ill-informed.

Barriers for WP students are not just about parental income, it's about being from postcodes/schools with very low participation rates in higher education, being the first in your family to go to university, coming from a care background, having disabilities, coming from a disadvantaged ethnic minority with traditionally low participation rates. It's about aspiration and self-belief.

As I posted upthread, a huge part of encouraging students from disadvantaged backgrounds to think about university is to make it seem accessible. It's not just about 'actually going to university' - it's about believing that university is an option for you, that it's not just for the 'other kids'. Grants have been a huge part of that.

Even once they arrive at university, students from disadvantaged backgrounds continue to face barriers in comparison to traditional students - that is why most universities have additional programmes to support them during and after their degrees.

Your parents earning over a certain amount does not mean you don't face any barriers.

This is a total straw man, and I don't think anyone has posted that.

There's no compulsion to pay back student loans while out of the UK currently. Unlike the US system, for example.

I agree that a graduate tax on worldwide income is the most equitable way forward.

Basically we're all supposed to get pissy and jealous about 18 year olds from poorer households getting a bit more help. Like many of the posters on here, we are supposed to think that the poor old middle class child gets a rough deal because s/he doesn't get the help that the poorer child does. Well tough luck Tories and mean-minded posters: I don't begrudge it and I do think it was fair to help those who needed it.

Basically we're all supposed to get pissy and jealous about 18 year olds from poorer households getting a bit more help. Like many of the posters on here, we are supposed to think that the poor old middle class child gets a rough deal because s/he doesn't get the help that the poorer child does.

And it's working. Beggars belief really.

Well, we are the nation of stupid fuckers who voted this lot in: hardly surprising that rampant self interest and hatred of the poor is in vogue I suppose.

The backfire is starting, though.

The £72,000 cap on care fees was postponed by 4 years this AM; BBC in the crosshairs; BTL affected by Budget measures....

It won't only be 'the poor' who lose out by this gov't's underlying assumption that 'the deserving' have trust funds to fall back on.