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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

2015 budget

79 replies

idliketoteachtheworldtosing · 08/07/2015 14:58

Shocked to actually find myself agreeing with the chancellor, well some of it. I think we have actually come to a stage where enough is enough and cb and tc for 2 children only, as shocking as it seems is actually the right thing to do!

OP posts:
raggety3 · 08/07/2015 21:14

Kardamyli Raggedy, shame on you for expecting other people to pay for your "quite a few children". As for the notion that your eldest will pay enough tax in his lifetime to make up for the vast amount of other people's money which his family have spent, he would have to be earning into 7 figures for that to be even remotely likely.

Wrong - you have no idea how much I receive in CTC - I am not on the maximum - if my oldest goes on to be a doctor and works for say 30 years, the tax he would pay on an average doctor's salary would be around 6 times the amount that I have received for all my children over their lifetimes. Thanks in part to the fantastic upbringing I have given my kids, most of them are likely to go on to have the potential to be higher earners. Strange isn't it that the government often cites the needs of the economy as a reason why we must continue to have high levels of migration into the UK - how does this fit with demonising people who choose to have more children? I have three siblings - they have two children between them - so counting my children, as an extended family we are actually at below 'replacement levels' of fertility! It all balances out.
Remember, the CTCs are for individual children - these individuals are likely when adults to go on to contribute to society and help keep our generation in our old age. Third and subsequent children are unlikely to be exempt from their fair share of that burden just because society chose to turn its back on them when they were young.

Metalguru · 08/07/2015 21:21

Can someone please link to CB being capped at two children? I thought it was only CTC?

ASettlerOfCatan · 08/07/2015 21:26

I currently live on benefits with 3 kids. I am far better off now than I ever was in my crappy min wage job. That is WRONG imo.

Calculators can't tell you everything and it's far from perfect but things CAN be adjusted and I'm sure they will be if big issues are caused.

Tax credits will reduce BUT with increase in min wage and tax bracket most workers should be in front.

Rent in council houses is going DOWN over next few years. Presumably this will help keep more people below the cut off point and help single parents in council flats etc.

Basic disability benefits (esa support, pip and dla) are NOT being fiddled with from what I can see and won't count towards the cap.

Benefits have risen much faster than wages the last few years. A culture where benefits have more value than wages is NOT good for anyone.

30 hours childcare for people working who have 3/4 year olds will help hugely and is prob worth more than the tax credits cut.

ASettlerOfCatan · 08/07/2015 21:27

Also the 2 children cap DOES NOT APPLY IF YOU ARE ALREADY IN THE SYSTEM.

Dawndonnaagain · 08/07/2015 21:38

Basic disability benefits (esa support, pip and dla) are NOT being fiddled with from what I can see and won't count towards the cap.
WRAG (ESA) has been reduced to the same as JSA. So that HAS been fiddled with it. Some people with disabilities are in receipt of tax credits, that too is affected. This family, in which nobody works and three out of four are disabled will lose over forty quid a month on this budget.

LaLyra · 08/07/2015 21:48

La you're right.
I'd totally overlooked the catch all 'new claiments' thing.
Completely covering themselves.

There's also speculation on lots of places about what happens when TC become part of UC. Does a new claim for UC make you a new claimant?

msgrinch · 08/07/2015 21:55

We will be £1000 worse off but something had to change so I support it completely. I had to go back to work when ds was 2, I wouldn't have another child as we can't afford to support them fully so I completely agree. Something had to change. I think the disabled have been treated unfairly through this and that's awful. They are the ones who need the most support.

ASettlerOfCatan · 08/07/2015 22:15

WORK related Esa is designed for people temp out of work due to illness. SUPPORT Esa is long term disabled. Support is untouched. They have done some other shitty things to disabled people but this isn't one of them.

ThroughThickAndThin01 · 08/07/2015 22:17

Good budget, very clever George.

rollonthesummer · 08/07/2015 22:21

cb and tc for 2 children only, as shocking as it seems is actually the right thing to do!

Child benefit hasn't been capped.

Dawndonnaagain · 08/07/2015 22:22

ASettler Have you any idea how many people get put in the wrong group? Have you any idea how many people are put in there whilst they go to appeal? It's not for people temporarily out of work due to sickness there are many people in the group with serious disabilities and serious mental health issues but who are either unable to appeal the placement (as decreed by ATOS) or in the process of appealing.

ThroughThickAndThin You approve of taking monies from people with disabilities do you?

ThroughThickAndThin01 · 08/07/2015 22:26

Dawndonna I thought disabilities benefits were untouched?

MrsCookieMonster78 · 08/07/2015 22:33

Dawn I'm really curious where you are losing money. I have read through the budget and understood that CTC will not be affected for disabled children and that carers allowance will not count in the new cap. I know a lot of the calculators around don't seem to take account of it. I'm not suggesting you are incorrect but really interested to understand what is being cut for you?

Dawndonnaagain · 08/07/2015 22:36

No, they're not. They have made the work related part of ESA the same as jobseekers so many people with disabilites are affected. There are also people with disabilities in receipt of tax credits, but if there is more than one lot of carer's allowance coming in, (not double what carer's allowance is, it's about one and a half times) this is counted as income. It's just over the tax credit limit, so that disabled family loses money. We have lost over £40 quid a month in this budget. That will make a significant difference to us even though we don't smoke, drink, go out or get takeaways! I haven't told dh yet, I'm too worried about his reaction.

Dawndonnaagain · 08/07/2015 22:37

MrsCookie We lose the carer's allowance via tax credits. It counts as income. If you look at the post above, it explains it.

IKnowIAmButWhatAreYou · 08/07/2015 22:42

You approve of taking monies from people with disabilities do you?

No more or less than taking it from other people TBH, who do you think it should have been taken from?

Dawndonnaagain · 08/07/2015 22:43

No more or less than taking it from other people TBH, who do you think it should have been taken from?
There are enough budgets for it to have come from elsewhere rather than from those who are least able to afford it.

MrsCookieMonster78 · 08/07/2015 22:51

Shit sorry Dawn that is crap. I think they did need to restructure things and try and pass the cost back to the employer rather than the taxpayer by topping up wages but they need to find a way not to impact disabled and vulnerable people who have no choice. Hope things get better soon.

Dawndonnaagain · 08/07/2015 22:58

Thank you MrsCookie

DisconcertedAndRetired · 08/07/2015 23:04

I also disagree that social housing is subsidised unless you receive housing benefit. It's cheaper than private renting because it's not run to make a profit and cover agents fees, landlord insurance, a buffer against vacant periods

If your estimate of what social housing is worth is better than the government's, then when rents go up people who don't receive housing benefit will move out into private rented accommodation, as that will offer better value for money. If this doesn't happen, it's probably because you were wrong.

DragonWithAGirlTattoo · 09/07/2015 14:47

So just seen a link to Marie Buchan (mother of 8) who says she will be homeless with the new benefits cap of £20k

WHAT MARIE BUCHAN RECEIVES IN STATE HANDOUTS
£440 a month in child benefit
£1,604 in tax credits
£283 in income support
Total: £2,227 a month, or £26,724 a year

so she will lose nearly £7k

but where are the dads? surely the children werent all immaculate conception - I'm in 2 minds on this one, firstly i dont think that the state should pay for someone to have 8 children, but then on the other hand, 8 DCs is not an easy life!? and if you cut her money down then the children will suffer

Goshthatsspicy · 09/07/2015 14:49

dragon l have a feeling the dad is dad to all of them. Well biological anyway.

DragonWithAGirlTattoo · 09/07/2015 15:02

sorry - do you mean you think that all have the same father, ah yes, i could be a little judgey and assume-y thinking they might have a mix - definitely my bad there!

however, why isnt he paying to look after HIS kids is really what i mean

DragonWithAGirlTattoo · 09/07/2015 15:04

oh ffffs!

"But even though she admits struggling to control the large brood she has now, the 32-year-old plans to have two more using a surrogate mother."

but they do have the same dad

"Miss Buchan’s relationship with her former partner and father of all her children ended last year because he couldn’t handle the stress of having so many children. He now sees them at weekends."

So why isnt he paying to look after his children?

Goshthatsspicy · 09/07/2015 16:58

Yes, l read that they have the same Dad.
Anyway, looks like you've found the info too. SmileI don't know what he is playing at?

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