A decent budget for low paid workers.

[Sickoffrozen]

Aibu to think that overall the budget was good news for the low paid with a big increase in minimum wages announced?

Seems like a decent idea to me.

But I stand to be corrected.....

So you don't have any evidence, then.

No more than you have "evidence" to prove that every single benefit claimant is not taking the piss.

Even White Dee has said that the benefits she was paid was ridiculous, but if the Government was willing to pay it she would take it.......

Anyone who posts on these forums and claim that they know people who are taking the piss out of the welfare system is shot down. Some even laughably claim that their views are worthless as they are anecdotal.

Do you seriously believe that every benefit claimant is doing all they can to get off benefits? If you do, then you are deluded.

No. I never said anything of the kind. Read my post from 2246 yesterday, when I gave my views on people who take the piss out of the system, and gave evidence that not everyone is doing that.

I don't blame anyone who takes what they are entitled to under the law. If we need to change the rules that is the solution not criticising people for taking what they are entitled to for the sake of their family or themselves.

Certainly a welfare state which most of us support needs a delicate balance to ensure everyone including high paid and medium paid workers believe it is fair. When we do we all contribute willingly. When we don't we vote in a Government to make changes. In extreme cases people revolt. I am a supporter on the whole of the budget as it will achieve what those who voted in this Government want. In other words I am afraid it is the will of the people which will not go down with a core number of mumsnet posters many of whom do receive relatively high tax credits but so be it. Most of the country's medium (and higher) earners wanted this slight rebalancing. Particularly over the issue of family size where plenty of posters do not have that third child because they cannot afford it and will not get benefits for it whereas others without that constraint of lack of benefits will push on with the later babies.

Actually I do blame people who take what they are entitled to under the law if they don't actually need it. I think that's part of the problem. I'm a socialist, have been all my life, could no more vote Tory than go fox hunting - but I know people who are taking the piss with the welfare system, and I've seen the impact that has on people around them - it has a disproportionate impact, backed up by the right wing media frenzy.

I have elderly neighbours who have told me they voted UKIP - nice people but reacting to just one actual case of another neighbours dd who has chosen "the benefits lifestyle" - how do they know this? Because the parents are all friends and gossip socialise and know each other's business.

I loathe the Tories and I'm horrified at the budget - but I do understand why people react so negatively to abuses of the system. I come from a WC family where benefits were only for times of real need. I can understand E's position because it's the one my father took - he never applied for all sorts of benefits he was entitled to because his mantra was "we're ok". He was also a socialist, old labour, who did manual labour with great pride in his work.

The real scroungers are the big corporations who manage to pay no tax, the real scandal is the amount of money spent on Trident and other weapons of mass destruction. Our society has got its priorities all wrong IMO.

"Most of the country's medium (and higher) earners wanted this slight rebalancing."

You can say you wanted it, you can't possibly comment on what most people of any demographic wanted.

I don't get tax credits, I didn't want it.

I have elderly neighbours who have told me they voted UKIP - nice people but reacting to just one actual case of another neighbours dd who has chosen "the benefits lifestyle" - how do they know this? Because the parents are all friends and gossip socialise and know each other's business.

My family are in complete and utter denial about my health. Wouldnt surprise me to hear them say i choose "the benefits lifestyle" :(

I'll lose £2k a year in TC. My kids will probably live with me in social housing for the next 15 years because as young adults, they'll never be able to afford private rents. I may earn more than £30k a year in 10 years or so, once i have finished my studies (and made my way up the ladder) which i do as well as working full time. My kids will have to borrow £50k to get an education and will be paid next to nothing in p/t jobs to support their studies. I'll get an extra £80 per year because of the higher tax threshold. Yes, this budget is great for working families with aspirations. Just fucking marvellous.

This is a bit different Beyond this woman did and freely admits it. She is a classic case for the Daily Mail. She is the only person I know that has done this, but thinking of all the other people who know her and know people who know her then her playing the system has a disproportionate effect whilever the right wing media are pushing the "welfare scroungers" line. All the people that know her can rightly say that they do know a welfare scrounger.

It creates a sense that there are lots of people playing the system when there aren't - in a similar way to one child abduction making everyone feel it's not safe to let children play outside. Whilever the media is screwed to the right then perceptions will be screwed.

So no - I don't support the idea of people getting what they "entitled to" from the state if they don't actually need it. Claims should be based on need not entitlement.

The simplest solution to balancing the economy is to stop spending more money each year than the country earns. A 15% cut each year to welfare (one way or another) will see it reach a sustainable level by 2020, and if the current government can deliver a welfare system those who are paying for it are satisfied with, and provide nominal growth in the economy to boot, they pretty much assure themselves of a sufficient turnout to see them reflected for another term. If they fail to cut welfare to a level where it is no longer worth idle exploitation, and the public continue to see the fat in the system, and feel it coming out of their pockets, then turnout will be low, and consequently the welfare recipients will push Labour back into power, Labour will write billions of pounds of debt and the whole cycle begins anew. After 13 years of labour, and a reprieve by the last government, it's time for those on welfare to start providing something back into society for all their handouts. We don't want the scabrous TV shows and JK contestants, we want real value from our citisens. Society is paying you, and it is entitled to something in return.

She is the only person I know that has done this. A classic precursor to a statement of dismissal and denial.

Until those on benefits are willing to face the cheaters, scroungers, and liars in their midst, they will be justly bundled in with them in the public psyche, as supporters, apologists and deniers of the fraud. If you insist on standing with the crowd 'in solidarity', you quite rightly get tarred with the same brush. Be that ridicule, vitriol, or the occasional £1000 cut in benefits.

Glad we gave up our crappy housing association flat last year and bought our own house! We earn over £30k but there is not a chance I would have paid full market rent to live there it was so horrible. Our mortgage now is only £100 more than what our housing association rent was anyway!

I'm not on benefits. Never have been. I'm lucky enough to be pretty well off, by most standards.

I freely admit that benefits scroungers exist.

I think the Tory government's current demonisation of the poor, sick and otherwise vulnerable is a national disgrace.

I am not a scrounger. i work FT. I just lost £1540pa of my income.

If I work harder to "replace" what I have lost...I lose more.

However if i earned £45000pa I would be given a tax break of a couple of hundred PA.

I wouldn't mind rebooting the countries economy and deficit with my 1/6th of my earnings if we were all all in it together...ie everyone else was losing 1/6th of their income......or I could work harder to make up for the shortfall. but working harder to just give more back to the government does not motivate me at all.

At least let me benefit from working harder, and let the middle to higher earners help out too.

EllieFAntspoo you do realise that a lot of people on benefits have no voice. that is why they are the hardest hit.\you won't get this I know.

Until those on benefits are willing to face the cheaters, scroungers, and liars in their midst, they will be justly bundled in with them in the public psyche, as supporters, apologists and deniers of the fraud. If you insist on standing with the crowd 'in solidarity', you quite rightly get tarred with the same brush. Be that ridicule, vitriol, or the occasional £1000 cut in benefits.

So, all people on benefits are responsible for anyone who cheats?

Are all companies aso responsible for tax avoidance and evasion?

I'm financially better off under this budget but I'm also disgusted by it.

I'm really pleased. My daughter works really hard in her job and is paid NMW. She is always grateful every year when it goes up by pennies. For her, the introduction of a national living wage is fantastic.

Until those on benefits are willing to face the cheaters, scroungers, and liars in their midst, they will be justly bundled in with them in the public psyche, as supporters, apologists and deniers of the fraud. If you insist on standing with the crowd 'in solidarity', you quite rightly get tarred with the same brush. Be that ridicule, vitriol, or the occasional £1000 cut in benefits.
Really? That's your attitude? How disgusting. Are you aware of the increase in disability hate crime? Are you aware of how your post reads, admit it or be tarred with the same brush. The thing that pisses me off about these threads is that those of us on benefits frequently say, yes we are aware that fraud happens. We look up the facts and figures and point out that although it happens, it's not to the same extent as fraud in other departments, and why should those with, for example disabilities be punished for the few. And then you come along and say, well actually you should, and you should be classified as benefit scrounging scum, too. How unpleasant.

Until those on benefits are willing to face the cheaters, scroungers, and liars in their midst, they will be justly bundled in with them in the public psyche, as supporters, apologists and deniers of the fraud. If you insist on standing with the crowd 'in solidarity', you quite rightly get tarred with the same brush. Be that ridicule, vitriol, or the occasional £1000 cut in benefits.

Wait, what? A group of poor people are responsible for all crimes committed by other poor people?! How about blondes? Those with brown eyes? Tall people? People capable of making hilariously stupid comments on the internet, when seeking to justify their own slathering, disgusting, inhumane selfishness? Do tell! Your posts are just so full of wisdom an insight. You post like someone whose every utterance is worth listening to. Not at all the sort of person every decent human being on the planet would pay good money to avoid!

People haven't lost there income, it's been given and now that extra free income is being reduced, there has to be a stimulus to business and a return to a family structure of two parents providing for the children, not the state propping up peoples failed relationships...

I'm really pleased. My daughter works really hard in her job and is paid NMW. She is always grateful every year when it goes up by pennies. For her, the introduction of a national living wage is fantastic

It is NOT a living wage.

"a return to a family structure of two parents providing for the children, not the state propping up peoples failed relationships..."

The failed relationships of two parents working full time? The failed relationships of those with a child with a disability? The failed relationships of those families where one parent works part time to provide childcare for the other parent working fulltime because childcare would cost more than they can earn?

Oh hang on, that's right, it's only lone parents who don't earn enough.

People haven't lost there income, it's been given and now that extra free income is being reduced, there has to be a stimulus to business and a return to a family structure of two parents providing for the children, not the state propping up peoples failed relationships...

I was going to respond to this but really what is the point...

13 million families are poorer due to this budget.

It's morally abhorrent, for a government to intentionally dramatically reduce the income of children whose parents work. Those are exactly the sorts of families the system should be protecting, whether it's with a genuine living wage plus tax cut at a combined level that would work, or tax credits.

That simple.

Could anyone clarify what is happening to Working Tax Credits for people with children at university?