to think that people who are well enough to volunteer stewarding at Festivals every single weekend are well enough to work?

[TalkinPeace]

Person has never worked due to MH and back pain - both of which are directly linked to morbid obesity.
Tells the MH people they are agarophobic, but seem OK in a field all weekend every weekend

and are thus getting into festivals for free when other people have to pay

the whole lot being funded by benefits.

The person is nice enough but if I put it on my FB feed they will see and realise I'm being judgy.
But am I being unreasonable to be annoyed?

What Nit said.
Where do people get the time, energy and permanent outragedness to do so much looking and judging of other people's lives?

I have no intention of "shopping" the person as, has been rightly said, I do not have the full picture.

But I can see enough to be pretty darned certain that if this person wanted to work, they could.
TheChandlers description very accurately describes the social group with whom they associate.

I have hidden them on FB.
When I meet them I try to encourage them to look for work before the benefits rug gets pulled.

I continue to do my best to offer appropriate support to another friend who will never ever be able to work and needs every penny of benefits that they get (and rather a lot more actually).

But I can see enough to be pretty darned certain that if this person wanted to work, they could.

No, you don't. Unless you have full access to their medical records, you really don't. How arrogant you sound.

If I were them I'd be relieved to have been hidden on FB.

OP, I know you didn't say you would shop them - but others have advised it.

When I meet them I try to encourage them to look for work before the benefits rug gets pulled

I have to say, if I were that person, I'd be trying hard not to bump into you too often if that's what you do. Just hold onto your pretty darned certainty if you want, but I'm sure you'd feel a lot healthier if you just let go of this.

In the words of House, everybody lies.

I don't always tell people the truth about MH issues (official capacities aside of course). Maybe this person just doesn't want to discuss how their MH really makes them feel. I often felt like I was two people, I had a public 'face' that could do the whole chatty, interesting thing but suffered from huge anxiety behind closed doors.

If someone tells everyone their business, manages hours every weekend working then its fair to assume they may well manage employment too.

No, it isn't. It's not fair to assume anything unless you are in full possession of all the facts. FFS. And how do you account for all the points made on this thread about how volunteering is very different to a paid job if you have anxiety problems?

Some people do tell you things without you asking. I have had people tell me that they are fiddling benefits.

I work regularly for festivals. It only needs to be declared if I am actually paid [eg:beer tent manager] as 12 hour shifts are worked and these are paid. Other shifts are 6 hours and monies are not paid to me but to a designated charity.
I frequently have team members with disabilities and we work well around these, eg: one member with MS cannot stand for more than 1/2 hour so she gets to work on counting and sorting floats or folding those sodding awful cardboard beer trays.
Even at Glastonbury the staff area is completely separate with showers and catered [free] facilities and portakabins for some to sleep in if tents are innapropriate.
NO TAXPAYERS MONEY IS SPENT ON THIS!
All work is voluntary but raises a heck of a lot for charity, a lot more than standing in a shop would.

'Successfully managing' volunteering (and you don't know how successfully, or what it might be costing them/what adjustments the festivals could be making to enable them to continue doing it) is not the same as managing or transitioning to paid work. I don't understand how you think they are the same.

But it's head against a brick wall, isn't it? Some of you seem determined to think the worst of people and, worse, to presume to know better than a person's medical support team.

Walk a mile in someone else's shoes, is all I can say really. Oh, and maybe hope something doesn't happen to you that makes people judge and assume the way some posters here are doing.

No, actually not everyone on this thread is guilty of presuming. A lot of people are saying the opposite: you CAN'T.

If you really think you can pass judgement on this person knowing nothing at all about their health, then frankly you really DO need to walk in someone else's shoes. It simply isn't possible to know that 'employment should be the next step' for someone about whose situation you don't have the first clue.

TheChandler When I was growing up, my father got disability benefit eventually after extended sick leave. It only encouraged further his unhealthy lifestyle which eventually led to his death. It was almost like a badge of honour amongst some men in that area of the country - their traditional working class, easy jobs for life had gone and they had to go out into the real world, didn't like it and so found a way to cope.

What traditional easy job was that then? Surely you can't be talking about coal mining or something?! And what new jobs were there to replace it?

I know what you mean about people not helping themselves - I am on ESA and PIP currently and do all I can to get better (mental health). This includes paying for psychotherapy as the NHS messed me around for years, kept changing their minds and now don't offer the treatment I need. However, surely dong this festival volunteering is the person helping themselves, doing what they can, trying to get out there?

I know lots of gentle hippy types who do this kind of volunteering and I could see that I may be able to manage (though not right now) doing this because I'd be with these lovely open minded people, and for volunteers, adjustments and understanding can be given in a way they are definitely not in paid employment.

Not sure why pps think the enjoyment factor enabling volunteering is so terrible. If someone was dealing with depression that their job worsened, wouldn't people advise seeking a position they enjoyed more? Don't people make career changes, because the enjoyment factor will make such a difference?

So why can't people accept that like everyone else on the planet, people with mental health conditions find enjoyable things much easier? I live alone and as such try to see a friend every day. Are you going to start adding up the time I do that and suggest I could be out at work?

Personally I think we need to start looking at workplaces; the more demanding and stressful they get, the more people who could perhaps work will be unable to cope.

To the OP: Your friend does need to declare the volunteeing to the DWP, they will draw their own conclusions with the full evidence. (Although in reality they give full weight to Atos/Maximus reports whist ignoring medical evidence, until it gets to appeal...)

To everyone who thinks in this case the OP's friend should be finding paid employment, because they are able to work part-time...

Did you know/would you like to kick up a fuss with the government about their changes to Working Tax Credit, especially the disability element?

If entitled to the disability element, people can claim WTC when they work 16hrs or more (rather than the usual 30 for childless people). There is no equivalent under Universal Credit, so basically you have to be too sick/disabled to work, or expected to work full-time. The idea of an income relacement if you can only manage part time has gone.

I thought when you were on benefits you had to declare all work, even voluntary?

Yes you do. You have to notify if volunteering, and seek written permission for paid working.
The later puts people under scrutiny and causes a lot of questions to be asked by more than one agency. Mainly based on why would you do it if it lowers your income. (what you gain with one hand you automatically lose with the other)
It's treated as very suspicious and I get the feeling inconvenient to the powers that be. I don't know if it's standard but my permission to try was set at 6 months, after which I get told if I can try any more or not.

yANBU

Products of the system though so you are right..not technically doing anything wrong. I'd be pissed off too though.
Work gets in the way!

I just keep thinking what if this person has mental health issues? An invisible disability? Can I say INVISIBLE DISABILITY again in capital letters? Because we all know Im sure, that often enough just because a disability cannot be seen, unkind people make uninformed judgements?

It gets on my bloody nerves...nosey, judgey curtain-twitchers who know fuck all about health assessments but think they can base it on what they see. Because a friend talks, its assumed she is telling you ALL her health issues? Really?

I abhor it - and sorry to say, its way too many women who are behaving in this horrid "I want to get them in trouble" type of way..whats wrong, haven't you got enough going on in your lives or do you feel life hasn't dealt you fair cards so you want others to suffer? If thats what makes you feel better it says nothing for strength of character

The ones on thread saying yes, report her - you don't know SHIT. Not about health assessments, invisible disabilities and difficulties. What you DO know, is how to pick up on gossip and run with it.

I feel mightily sorry for disabled people...maybe we should campagin for them to wear cards around their necks and ring a leper's bell as full proof of enitlement to the unbridled riches of disability benefits.

Advising them to look for work before the benefits rug is pulled...? You sound like a bundle of laughs OP. The kind of friend to be avoided if seen coming down the road, and I bet there are people who won't tell you a thing. You'll get a reputation for having a sharp nose.

People on benefits just can't win though can they? If they're not working, they're lazy feckless scroungers who should be made to do some work, even if they don't get paid for it. But if they choose to do voluntary work, which they can do when their health enables them to, they get criticised for that too. What should these people who are unable to be in regular, paid employment do?

The point is if this person can be in regular paid employment.

Op get a job with ATOS you will fit right in with your attitude towards disabilities and your lack of medical expertise

I'm late coming back to this, but:

No I don't need to walk in anyone elses shoes, how long shall we keep this up? I can happily keep it up as long as you like, because unless you know ALL the details of someone's health and circumstances you CANNOT know the full story. That's pretty easy to understand, no?

Equally a lot of posters agree that the level of work and time involved is indicative of employment being a possibility. Well I disagree with them too. It's not necessarily the amount of work/time involved; it's the difference between a voluntary job that exerts little pressure, and a paid job for which you're expected to turn up or face sanctions. Again, fairly easy to grasp, surely.

I'm not 'passing judgement'. Its my opinion based on the information the op has given us

Well in MY opinion, the OP is biased and has already decided this person is a waster. And she knows precious little about their circumstances too, so the 'information' she's passed to us is, to put it politely, slender.