school detention?

[mumcantmakeadecision]

Ds got detention today for not having his pe kit in school.
But, the school know that for the remainder of the term he is not allowed to do pe.
So he has been given detention for not taking a kit in for a subject he is not allowed to do...
Is that normal?

The other thing about detentions of course, is that the school does not need your permission to keep the child in. Schools can give detentions whether or not parents agree and simply has to inform. Notice is not necessary.

When DS broke his finger he was expected to bring his kit in as normal to show he was prepared for the lesson. He didn't have to change into it, he could just sit separately and do some work though.
However this was made clear in the care plan the school sent home and to DS himself by the pastoral office and that's the difference.
If he had known about this and not taken his kit them he would have got a detention and deserved it.
So it all depends on whether the school made it clear.

Slightly playing devils advocate here, although I do get it seems silly if you have organised formally that he is "off PE" it seems a bit pointless. every week where I work admin, teaching and PE staff waste an inordinate amount of time on pulls and parents who collude to "avoid PE". Looking at your own situation there is clearly a good reason so yes I see your point. However by year 10 I think most students would be aware that there was a responsibility to have kit available. It's a school rule. In schools parents often do not help by thinking that at the end of the term the rules no longer really matter. If Ofsted inspect and they consider why so many pupils are out of PE by looking at attendance then the school may have to do some explaining. the problem these days is parents seem to be very keen to get their DC into school of choice, but then decide they don't like the rules that presumably they were attracted to, being applied to their own children. It's a dangerous line to start being the parent kicking off about a simple rule breaking detention, mainly because it sends a message to you child that they"rules" don't apply to them and you will always have their back. If it's his one and only detention I wouldn't be to bothered. Just do the right thing and let him serve it. It makes him look the bigger person. Then quietly after the detention have a conversation with the Head of year or relevant person and calmly state why you think the rule either needs enforcing so all are aware or reviewing as you think it is silly. There WILL be a reason this rule exists.

*pupils not pulls!

The other thing about detentions of course, is that the school does not need your permission to keep the child in. Schools can give detentions whether or not parents agree and simply has to inform. Notice is not necessary.

This is strictly true. However, in my son's school you do get notice, sometimes 3-4 days (which you absolutely should get). So if you disagree, you can raise it with the teacher concerned. Ultimately the school says if you refuse "permission" for the detention they'll do a Saturday morning detention with the head, or a fixed term exclusion instead. In this case I think the head would rather waive the detention if you cogently argue why it's bonkers.

Why do you need to be prepared for a lesson you can't do and the school knows you can't do? Just because it's a school rule doesn't mean the rule isn't bonkers and can't be changed. Schools can and do change rules! For example, my son's school used to ban mobile phones, now they are allowed to be in school but can't be seen or heard in lessons. If they are, they are confiscated and parents have to retrieve them. But the kids have got them for the journey in and out of school. The rule was changed last year due to feedback.

However, I agree with the advice above about serving it. School is a good place to learn about petty officialdom! It prepares kids for the parking tickets they'll get when they are older for overstaying their welcome in a car park for 2 minutes. It's only 30(?) minutes of his life, he'll get over it.

i called the school and asked about the bring kit in, but not get changed into it rule. apparently it was only brought in the beginning of this term, and some but not all sessions apply to it. for instance if they are outside it doesn't matter. its something to do with the new floors in the gym...they school have said he doesn't need to do the detention and i have made sure he knows he now needs to take it in regardless.

mum it was an hours d/t on friday afternoon, which would have meant he missed his school transport home.

Sounds like the best possible outcome. I still think it is a pointless rule.

I have to say I did once have to tell my DD1's school something similar. I am normally a supporter of school rules, but really felt she had done nothing wrong either.

She was in year 11 when the school uniform supplier went bankrupt, and as it was only a few weeks until the end of the year she fell into the category for whom it was not worth spending hundreds on new uniform. They were allowed to finish the year and do their GCSEs in existing uniform, but for some of them their skirts became just marginally shorter than the stipulated knee length. School tried to give them detention. I calmly pointed out that I could no longer get the required skirt and had spoken to them about the problem before. Also, nobody could collect her if she had to stay after school on that specific night. They backed down and supplied her with a skirt from their second hand cupboard, which would have been a better solution than the heavy handedness anyway.

I sometimes think that some people do enforce a rule willy nilly and out of habit, without using their brains to consider whether or not it is sensible in current circumstances.

It's a ridiculous rule - expecting a child who is unfit for PE to carry extra weight around sounds cruel.

The high school I went to had the right idea - anyone trying to pull a fast one with "I forgot my kit" would be found one from lost property.

Participation in another way (e.g. keeping score) seems sensible but why is it necessary to be in kit for that?? Not to mention the fact that sitting at the side in shorts and t-shirt could get quite chilly!!

I think it's a really odd rule to honest but at the same time I do find it odd that your ds has managed 4 years at this school and hasn't had a single friend/acquaintance who's missed pe and either known to have their kit or found out hard way they needed their kit. When I was at school kids talked and it would have been the kind of thing that would have been all round the school in no time meaning we all knew the rule!

If the school knew he was off PE he should have been told the rules (or as others here have said already known the rules, kids are good at this!). It is draconian, but many parents want strict schools and then often don't want it to apply to their child.

My head says in his speech to prospective parents says that: "We are a strict school, and I make no apologies for that." Parents still ring up in year 7/8/9/10/11 to exempt their kids from detention for no hmw, no kit, late without permission etc. Sadly schools have to be a bit draconian or only the few would serve their punishments and learn a lesson. As a teacher I'd let things slide with a parental excuse for no hmw prior to the fact, but as one girl recently found out the "left at it her Dad's/Aunt's" excuse for no hmw twice in a row in an email from her Mum does not cut it.

Roll with it, let him serve it, and back the school! It sets a bad precedent not to.

kafri I found out today that it was only implemented this term.
Last half term his pe was an outside one, rugby, this half term its been an inside one. So it's only been a few weeks, ( since june?) That it would have affected him. Also the children don't need to change intoit, just have it with them, so he hadn't seen others sitting out bit still in uniform.
I have no problem leaving him to deal with punishment as long as they make expectations clear and I didn't feel they had this time. I've never got involved in the rest of the time he's been there which shows I normally back the school I think.

This is bonkers. He still seriously needs to lug his PE kit in? I'm afraid I would not have agreed with that. My DS didn't do PE/ games for his last year at primary and when they were doing certain activities at high school due to health issues. There's no bloody way I'd have accepted him having to carry his kit back and forth for a lesson he wasn't taking part in.

Punish those who use forgetting their kit as a reason to get out of it by all means but don't inconvenience those who can't take part as it's easier. That's just really poor management dressed up as something else.

What life lesson is this suppose to teach? As a senior manager should I be disciplining my team members for not reading papers for meetings they have no need to attend? Should I expect them to travel to meetings where there would be zero value in them attending, just for the sake of sending them. No. Because we're a bit more fecking sensible. And sadly paying customers rather than angry parents seem to be listened to more.

Well done op! Small victory but I'm sure one your ds will remember.
I still harbour resentment towards my batshit English teacher who gave me detention in year 10 for doing physics homework in her lesson. I repeatedly explained I'd dropped physics the year before, my friend day next to me explained it was her work she was doing and even the bloody physics teacher backed me up but I still had to sit through her detention.

That really is a daft rule though and not one I've come across.

As well as what lovesleep2 said, there is another VERY good reason for children changing into their PE kit.

And that is since Victoria Climbie schools have an obligation to look out for and safeguard children. Sometimes the only times you can see their arms and legs (and note inappropriate bruises) are when they are in their PE kits.

Read the other thread about bad how things have to be before kids are taken into care and please think on.

Seriously Fatmomma? So DC who don't do PE due to recognised medical conditions where the DPs have provided medical evidence - which we had to do - still have to get undressed in front of a teacher in case the consultant caring for them has missed something? Bollocks.

By all means keep an eye out for those DC who keep on bringing notes from home week in and out but don't inconvenience the DC who have supporting medical evidence with such crap. It's hard enough being the 'sick kid' and having to sit on the sidelines without not being able to take part. Having to carry your kit in and get changed in and out of it without being able to take part must be utterly depressing. At least DS's school were sensible, he had time with a TA to study maths, his weakest subject, in that hour. I don't think he would have passed his GSCE without it. Far more valuable than score keeping....

fatmomma
As I said. They are not required to change. Just have it there.
So your point is totally off the mark.

Ah well OP, if it's a new rule then the really should have made it clear to all pupils prior to implementing it. And whoever thinks up these rules clearly hasn't got enough real work to do!!

Glad you got it sorted.