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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To feel sorry for the mother of the Tunisian gunman

144 replies

namechange4this123 · 05/07/2015 14:27

www.itv.com/news/2015-07-05/mother-of-tunisian-beach-gunman-says-he-refused-to-kill-a-mouse-because-he-couldnt-kill-anything/

I don't think her upset can even remotely compere to the grief of those whose loved ones were murdered in Tunisia.

However I can't imagine how awful it must feel to find out that your child has done such a terrible thing, and have to live with the guilt of this for the rest of your life.

OP posts:
Signlake · 05/07/2015 17:04

So are those in charge of the terror group also not evil Freudian

Confused
ArmySal · 05/07/2015 17:04

Oh FFS... You are aware that there are some Muslims (and people of all colours and religions, come to that) who deliberately taint their child's view on others? By being racist? I don't know how this woman raised her child, or what views she did or didn't teach him. I only know he has slaughtered lots of people who were barely dressed, let alone armed.

Obviously there are circumstances where I feel sorry for a mother if her child becomes a killer. I've known quite a few from solid backgrounds whose children have gone off the rails. I don't judge those parents.

If, however, the child went out and blasted innocent people to death based solely on the colour of their skin/religious beliefs, then yes, I would judge on how they've raised them.

Kangaroosjump · 05/07/2015 17:08

Well I know my view will be controversial but I'm going to post it anyway - feeling brave Grin

I actually believe he was also a victim. Not an innocent victim like the holiday makers as he made the choice to believe what he did and to slaughter people because of it - but a victim because he believed this false ideaology/religion which had he been educated a lot more on the history of religions, and not been so gullible as to be taken in by fundamentalism, I don't think it would have come about. Fundamentalism leads people to do horrible things and believe they are right - the Westboro baptist church rejoices at the death of gays and soldiers etc different religion yet same ideology where some higher power favours those who believe what they do and the rest of humanity is worthless and hated. Even the gunman is a victim of fundamentalism, he will by now have discovered how much pain and suffering he has caused on the earth plane due to his deception.

I feel really sorry for his mother who has guilt to carry as well as grief for the rest of her life (even if she shouldn't take on the guilt, she will - we all would if it was us) who knows if she's innocent or not, whether she encouraged him into the idealogy and indoctrinated him as a small child or if she didn't teach him how to think for himself. She could be entirely innocent herself though.

Still victims, the holiday makers however - they are definitely innocent victims

kali110 · 05/07/2015 17:27

So it depends on how a child kills a someone on whether you would give the parents sympathy?Hmm
Does that mean if your child commits murder or other atrocious acts it's ok for people to question how you bought your children up?
This woman hasn't done anything.
She is a victim.
You can only punish a child for wrong doings to a certain age.
After a certain age there is nothing a parent can do, whether they agree with what their child is doing or not.

LittleLionMansMummy · 05/07/2015 17:33

I feel sorry for her, as i felt sorry for the parents of the copilot who deliberately crashed the plane into the Alps. I cannot even begin to imagine the pain. I often think that if i lost my ds i don't know how I'd ever get over it. But how can you grieve appropriately for your child knowing that he is directly responsible for the deaths of others and the pain and suffering of many more. I shudder to think.

FreudiansSlipper · 05/07/2015 17:35

I would not call anyone evil

I believe people choose to commit awful violent acts, evil acts whatever term you want to use

But no I do not believe someone is pure evil or born evil humans are complex far easier to put people in good not so good and evil boxes but we are all capable of cruelty and of showing true kindness

ArmySal · 05/07/2015 17:50

So it depends on how a child kills a someone on whether you would give the parents sympathy?

Not by how they kill them, no. Hmm There's your roll-eyes back.

Does that mean if your child commits murder or other atrocious acts it's ok for people to question how you bought your children up?

Yep, I'd expect them to. In fact, it can be part of a criminal's defence in court.

This woman hasn't done anything.
She is a victim.

You don't know that, do you?

You can only punish a child for wrong doings to a certain age.
After a certain age there is nothing a parent can do, whether they agree with what their child is doing or not.

You don't say...

kali110 · 05/07/2015 17:57

Cross your fingers your kids don't do anything then as you will be guilty and judged.
Any evidence she's done anything wrong?
Why does she have to prove she's innocent?
Is it just guilty by association because she is his mother?
I think what he did was awful ( there aren't even words) but i'm not going to condem his mother simply because she gave birth to him.
That is what always happens, you read about some terrible crime and then a load of people pile on about how horrible their parents are ...

thenightsky · 05/07/2015 18:23

How is it possible to be a mother and not feel sorry for another mother in circumstances like this? I cannot stop putting myself in her place and thinking 'what if'? Having to see the dreadful photos on the internet and in the press... seeing a picture of your own boy lying dead in the street, shot in the head. I weep for that poor mother.

drudgetrudy · 05/07/2015 18:26

Littlelionsmummy-I agree with you-how terrible to lose your child and to have to remember them with shame and not pride.
Sometimes criminality is linked to upbringing sometimes not.
It is not long ago that we were blaming the mothers of people with autism and schizophrenia (refrigerator mothers) and note it is always the mothers-not other family members.
Unless I hear that this woman embraced the same ideas as her son she continues to have my sympathy.

ProudAS · 05/07/2015 18:29

She must be suffering as much as relatives of those he killed if not more.

Not only has she lost her son she also has to live with the stigma of being the gunman's mother and her memories of him will be tainted.

kali110 · 05/07/2015 18:44

Thenight&drudge yes agreed. It Hasn't been said that she has done anything wrong but is still being blamed! It isn't always upbringing.
Only person at wrong is the person who did it.
She has my sympathy. Her son is dead including the son she always knew. She may also be feeling guilty for being ashamed by what he has done.

Gemauve · 05/07/2015 18:50

It Hasn't been said that she has done anything wrong but is still being blamed!

No she isn't.

The question is not whether she is a victim: she is.

The question is whether he is a victim, as she claims.

Kangaroosjump · 05/07/2015 18:53

Of course he was brainwashed - no baby comes into the world naturally thinking when I grow up I want to run round on a beach killing people in the name of religion

SlaggyIsland · 05/07/2015 19:02

I feel dreadfully sorry for her. He grief will be intense, she has lost her son, and it will also be very complex due to the circumstances.
She will have all her memories of him as a baby, a little boy... then the final memory of him lying dead in the street.
There was footage of her being carried from her home into a car the day after it happened. She was clearly in a state of absolute nervous collapse and I'm not surprised.
This in no way negates how sorry I feel for the victims and their families.

Tutt · 05/07/2015 19:06

I feel so sorry for her, as sorry as I do all of the victims... she is another victim of his.
To the people who say no she raised him...
Look at your children when you tuck them into bed, kiss them and read them a book, and pray/fingers crossed/ what ever good luck thing you believe in that your child never does this, or harms anyone ever, because it is easy to sit on your pedestal when you have not been there or are blind to the fact that maybe one day it could be your much loved, cherished, sweet baby!

downgraded · 05/07/2015 19:09

Normal kids don't grow up and kill 30 odd people on a beach do they? So I think it's safe to say that something has gone wrong somewhere along the way.

However, unless the mother has been somehow instrumental in radicalising him I would absolutely refuse to lay the blame at her door. Once your child is off into the world you have very little influence over them when it comes to radicalisation. If whole communities and governments haven't got a clue as to how to prevent young men becoming radicalised then I imagine that the only thing you can do if it's your adult son is look on helplessly.

I wonder if those posters laying the blame squarely at her door take equal amounts of blame when their child steals, or bullies, or gets into trouble?

Equally, should we be giving all the Muslim mothers of teenage boys who don't become radicalised a pat on the back? If you're to get the blame when it goes tits up its only fair that you get the praise when it doesn't. It's all down to you after all.....

And Teal has a good point - is the father completely without influence here?

ArmySal · 05/07/2015 19:20

I wonder if those posters laying the blame squarely at her door take equal amounts of blame when their child steals, or bullies, or gets into trouble?

Who on earth has laid the blame squarely at the mother's door? Can't see one poster who has made that claim.

MrsDeVere · 05/07/2015 19:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

downgraded · 05/07/2015 19:42

ArmySal - ChwatFeechers, Bakeoffcake, Ambarholder to name three...

downgraded · 05/07/2015 19:44

Very well said MrsDeVere

Bambambini · 05/07/2015 20:10

No matter what, she is a grieving mother. It has just happened, she is grieving and is probably not in a good place and the world is watching and judging. When other people are grieving, especially for their children - we tend to cut them a lot of slack and wouldn't dream of judging how they react in the initial aftermath. I can't understand why some people are being so critical and judgemental at what is still a grieving mother trying to come to terms with her grief in the first few days following the harrowing death of her child.

Tutt · 05/07/2015 20:40

Downgraded yes 'normal' children can go on to be mass killers/terrorists or whatever because they are born innocent, the same as the rest of us.
I agree with MrsDeVere we are not born evil, we are not evil but we can do/court pure evil.

LapsedTwentysomething · 05/07/2015 20:51

Poor woman. A young woman was murdered fairly locally to me by a young man she knew and was friendly with. The murder was heavily influenced by snuff porn. I feel for his mother almost as much as I do for the victim's family. How could you ever come to terms with the boy that you bore and raised doing something so unthinkably awful? Same in this woman's case.

Bakeoffcake · 05/07/2015 20:55

I am certainly not "laying the blame squarely at her door" downgraded

I said I didn't know her and she MAY have had something to do with him being a murderer.

That may be harsh but I feel exactly the same about other murders I hear about. I do think "what was his/her upbringing like?"

Maybe that's wrong but for someone so young to have done something so atrocious, something has gone very wrong in his life and it's no great leap to think that may involve his family.