Sex ed - shaving legs in year 5

[Candycoco]

Have posted in education but posting here for traffic.

Dd came home from school today having had sex ed at school for the past 2 days.

I've always been very open with her and have answered questions as they've come up, so no big revelations this week.

However, she told me today that the boys were taught how to shave by male teacher, and girls were taught how to shave their legs. This just doesn't sit right with me. I know 99% of women do shave their legs and it's something I've already talked to dd about as she asked me last year about it and I told her she has to wait til end of year 6 before she starts secondary to do it.

I just feel it's a bit presumptuous and suggests all girls should. Maybe I'm being bit uptight about it but I don't like the message it sends. Is this normal to teach this as park of sex ed?

Thanks

Wow, this brings back memories of school... Year 7 I had the hairiest legs, and summer uniform showed them off beautifully I got so many girls commenting on it, lots of them saying 'why hasn't your mum showed you what to do?', but my mum had very fair hair and obviously never even considered it!
When I asked her, she was very and said that I was too young, but if I really wanted a razor I could ask for one for Xmas. But that was even more mortifying because I didn't want an electric razor that made NOISE, so everyone in the house would KNOW when I was shaving my legs!
So I ended up popping to Boots and just buying a pack of Bic and giving it a go - I always nicked myself behind the ankle, but it was worth it!
I still resent my mum alittle bit for not helping me out, and it's weird because she was great the rest of the time. She obviously has an issue with me growing up 'too soon', but really it was my body and my decision - and to not talk about it properly to me, just look a bit put out and insist I waited 6 months, seemed very unfair and arbitrary, and it still does now!
Love my mum though

sorry I am laughing here at the idea that it is a mystery how my 3yo knew that girls can't be engineers....I mean you get that TV exists right? And that children's books are as gender stereotyped as it comes? Or that shops sell girls toys and boys toys, handily colour coded to reach those too young to read?

Kids pick up societal norms very rapidly. As they are sexist so our kids become sexist. Rocket science it ain't.

As for dealing with 11/12 year olds in tears...its a chronic versus acute issue. Sure, you can stem the tears today by shaving leg hair off...but the tears are simply diverted to the future when the next imperfection of body is found.

And every time you treat the acute symptoms of body shame you add to the chronic aspect as you reinforce the message that..yes you were right your legs, boobs, face was ugly and did need improving.....

Its a bit like eating chocolate to get over your misery about your weight really....works in the short term...but in the long term you are fatter than ever.

Yes, the hair does grow back, and we all have bodies to deal with and they are bothersome from time to time...

It is my opinion that if a grown adult wishes to take on The World And All Its Unfairness then by all means go ahead and do that. But your child is not there to be your personal foot soldier.

Yes mystery why a 3yo would know her career choices are limited unless they've been exposed to some pretty strong opinions on the subject. At 3, despite good reasoning skills and the evidence of the media about the practicalities of a single career mine was going to be a showjumper, a ballerina, a doctor, a teacher and a jockey all at once whilst also running a farm and fitting in her astronaut activities at weekend and being a famous singer. so I do question where a 3yr old got the idea they couldn't do a certain job based on gender.

I wanted to be a lion tamer. I'm ashamed of that now since obviously having wild animals in circuses is a terrible thing.

Icebeing it's a very long time since I've watched children's TV or read books aimed at 3 year olds. I'd be very surprised however if any programme aimed at that age group is saying that. So far as books if she's 3 years old aren't you weeding out those you find problematic?

At various other points my daughter was also going to be an ancient Celt and a Native American when she grew up. Even when she was reading old copies of Enid Blyton that are crammed with gender stereotypes she was able to form the opinion she wanted to do something like Brian cox when she grows up.

I would say that gender stereotyping is more of a problem for boys than girls. It's socially acceptable for girls to like boy stuff - it's all part of the idea that, actually, boy stuff is superior. Catch a boy wanting to wear a pink dress, however, or play with dolls, or grow his hair long and plait it, or become a nurse, or join the guides, and he will have a hard time trying to live it down. Girls can become scouts. Girls are constantly being told they can be engineers. Girls, it seems to me, have more choices than boys do. The message I've received loud and clear from society in general is that you are thought to be an inferior being if you like girl things and you should go out and behave like a man. So maybe we all have different antennae and therefore pick up different messages from different channels, depending on what we are sensitive to...

Women don't get pay rises, apparently, because they aren't aggressive enough or sell themselves up like men do. We're all doormats, apparently. We should be more like men.

There are good arguments for addressing the issues surrounding personal hygiene and grooming in the classroom but a sex education class in Y5 is not the appropriate time or place.

"Sex education" in KS2 is normally part of the personal, social and health education curriculum from which parents are entitled to withdraw their children (ie it is not compulsory until secondary school). It mainly covers puberty, the changes male and female bodies go through at that time and why this is happening, and emotional changes that adolescents may go through. Given that girls in particular may already have started going through puberty by year 5, it is a reasonable time to talk about this. Frequently raised questions once on this sort of topic relate to deodorant and shaving. It's quite difficult to avoid these subjects, because they do tend to be of great interest to children of that age who have started noticing each other's body odour for the first time, and noticing hair growing where it never used to grow.

There is a noticeable whiff in most year 5 and 6 classrooms that you don't detect in the other classrooms of an average primary school...

I imagine that the talk was in a relaxed environment where the kids were allowed to talk and ask questions. Im guessing that a child mentioned shaving to the teacher and she gave an honest answer. Cant see a problem with that? Are we saying that the kids weren't allowed to ask anything other than sex ed?

Keeping clean and fresh (which includes using deodorant) is, IMO, a reasonable topic for classroom discussion in Y5 and Y6. Unwanted body hair removal not so.

So if a child asked you about it, you would tell them they were being inappropriate?

In a classroom context, yes. In a private capacity, absolutely not.

So you would tell them to come and speak to you in private about it, afterwards?

I also think that make-up, high heels, handbags instead of school bags, Instagram, Twitter etc should all be out of bounds at primary school.

No. As a teacher I would tell them that the subject is not addressed at or by school in primary.

So you would address it in secondary?

I would be beyond furious, as a parent, if a teacher presumed to give my primary child information about preparing him or herself for seduction.

Not personally - I think that it is appropriate for the subject to be addressed in secondary school and to be on the curriculum.

So you see shaving your legs as preparation for seduction?

And you see male face shaving as preparation for seduction?

Body hair removal (of which leg shaving is one example of many) is a very longstanding ritual of passage to womanhood and seduction - across time/cultures.

Btw, the police come into primary schools to warn about the dangers of Instagram and Twitter, and Facebook. It's part of internet safety training.