to think it's unfair we have to pay a £500 surcharge for the NHS

[alaskanbaby]

My DH (let's call him Mr. Alaska) and I both work full time, and pay income tax like everyone else, which goes towards our use of the NHS like everyone else. We've just found out that we need to fork out a £500 surcharge for his use of the NHS as part of his extension of his immigration visa (for being my husband of 5 years, and father of our 18 month old DD - both she and I are British, though I guess she's sponging off the NHS quite a bit). Am I being unreasonable to think it's unfair that my DH has to pay twice?

I'm from the UK but living in Sweden. Can people like us paying no uk tax still get free nhs treatment then?
Seems quite unfair tbh.

I'm dual nationality now and paid £150 which seemed steep these charges are insane.

Yes and let's not forget that these charges are levied at people who are choosing to live in another country.

Which is a MASSIVE luxury and privilege.

I have my choice of many many countries to live in because I was lucky enough to be born in country X.

Yet immigration is a massive issue and people born country Y will risk their lives in an attempt to emigrate to another country which has better prospects for them.

Luxury and massive privilege? I moved here from Australia (another wealthy country, Queen is even still Head of State) to work for a few years. I happened to have the temerity to fall in love with a Brit and get married, and boy has that drained our cash! For me at least, deciding to live here was not an economic decision/better life/whatever. That said, we'll be doing it all over again to move to Oz in four years or so

Purplemurple - if you live in Sweden you are not entitled to free NHS treatment as such, you'd have to take your E104 for access, and it would be cross charged to your state of residence's system. Nationality is irrelevant, it's place of residence that matters.

YANBU OP, he is here and paying taxes. Personally I think that should entitle him to NHS care if nothing else.

I get that £500 is a drop in the ocean compared to potential coats should he need emergency care but it's the same with 18 year old who have never contributed.

I moved from the UK with my non-EU husband and dual nationality children, we have had a lot of problems with UK immigration but that's partly because we lived in the USA for a chunck of our marriage (neither of us are US citizens-but it was far easier for us to get visas there than my own f*ing country) My DH is a highly qualified engineer, the UK has to pay higher rates to foreign engineers as they have a severe shortage of UK engineers qualified to do what my DH does. The only UK qualified engineer we know has moved out of the UK as he has a non-EU wife and had visa complications due to the contract nature of his work.

We were once stuck in France for 12 hours, trying to return to the UK when I was 8 months pregnant and we had two small children, having been married for 10 years but only shortly returned from the USA, we stupidly thought we could have a family holiday in France! One customes officer actually told my husband in a roundabout way that if he didn't like the system he could move, we were in the process of saving and he lost his cool. We finally spoke to someone who had common sense, who informed us about the system that Dutch1e talks about. We didn't use it as we were both feeling getting out of the UK ASAP was in all our interests but we informed the previously mentioned British engineer friend who took his non-EU wife and child, moved to France and she got French residency just like that. Problem is they all had to relocate to France but were lucky enough to be able to afford to do so.

Moving to my husbands country was not cheap, it took four years of saving and not everyone would be able to do it. So those that say "go home" or "move to another country" haven't got a clue what they are talking about. Plus there's the emotional costs of upping sticks and moving children. Just read posts about people planning to move children to new schools in the UK and multiply that by 100 (1000 if they have language changes). When I moved and because I am married to a citizen I had an ID card in one month and no hassle. The Federal Police have been great. I too can use the free healthcare if I need it. I don't but one of my children was taken ill years ago, while we were on holiday here. We were asked to contribute if we could and only what we could afford, which of course we did.

If you don't have first hand experience of the UK immigration systems prejudism against UK nationals marrying people from outside the UK, you can have no idea how upsetting and frustrating it can be. I gave up and I'm sure others have too, for a lot they probably finacially or emotionally can't.

I think the charges are fair for me and other Brits that live abroad, I actually think the charges are fair for newcomers, but for the OPs husband no, certainly not and I find it that anyone would think otherwise .

Yes it's a luxury and privilege - how many people in the world would be ecstatic to be a citizen of either Australia OR Britain but will never ever have the opportunity to live anywhere else but where they were born?

And you have rights to live in both Australia and Britain, and once you become British you can live/work throughout the EU if you choose to do so.

Perhaps what would be more fair would be an increased ni and income tax for immigrants on a sliding scale of time spent - but the admin for that would be bonkers so this is the next best option - very few countries offer free health care to immigrants - if I went abroad uninsured I would have a massive bill in the event of illness or accidents.

lovelyfriend the truth is no one has the right to just pick a country and choose to live there. Brits and Aussies cannot just go and live in any country they choose, most will be denied a visa unless they are married to a citizen, can work in jobs that there is a shortage of citizens for or are offered a work based contract to go (which can be terminated). Also there is high unemployment in a lot of EU countries and most Brits cannot just up and move to say Germany. If you were a German employer would you hire someone who can say "Please" "Thank you" and "I'd like a beer" or a citizen with a proficient grasp of the language?

Maddening when you first arrive you're put on an emergency tax code until you can get your NI number (took me 2 months IIRC). Why is it just immigrants you want to put on a sliding scale? Especially when non EEA immigrants have no recourse to the public funds they're contributing too anyway? (Apart from NHS treatment).

I'm sick of the "immigrants are freeloaders" narrative.

Tomato - Brits can exercise their right to free movement just as easily as any other EU citizen and often don't have the language issue because English is pretty much spoken everywhere. What gives you the impression they couldn't? Especially when the number of Brits living in other EU countries is pretty much the same as non British EU citizens living in the UK?

tomato and yet as citizens of Britain it is still a viable option for us if it is something we decide we want to do. I have dual NZ/British nationality and a long list of other countries are open to me if I decided I want to emigrate again. Most people in the world don't have that privilege.

It's not a difficult point I am making.

English is pretty much spoken everywhere maybe, but the reality is that going to a country that you don't speak the language and attempting to compete for jobs is not going to be a bed of roses. An early years teacher in the UK cannot just up and go and work in France or Spain, 5 year olds do not speak English and they often need someone that can care for them and meet their needs. I too have a long list of countries that are open to me and a husband that can pretty much work anywhere due to his skills. Being able to do something and actually doing it are two very different things. I'm not saying we are not lucky to come from privileged countries. That doesn't mean that we should not complain about the crappy immigration policies because some people are living in war zones. People deal with problems of their reality, they shouldn't just suck it up because some where in the world the problems are worse.

LovelyFriend, as the spouse of a UK citizen, we can move anywhere in the EU and I can work.

I think that is unfair considering he has been paying his fair share for 15yrs

Well, he hasn't, Babyfeet. He was a student so not earning, then he earned, then he was out of UK for 2-5 yrs if I understand OP correctly. So maybe 7 yrs in total paying income tax.

Pick a country where you don't speak the language, apply for a job and on your CV do make sure you make it clear you cannot speak their language. How far do you honestly think you'll get? There are plenty of Brits living in Spain that work in tourism, they would not be able to do another job because they cannot speak more than the basics! So yes a British pediatrician who is married to an non-EU citizen can leave the visa hassle and go and work in a bar in Spain, s/he has the choice in theory, doesn't automatically mean they would want to make it in reality so "if you don't like it, pick another country" is not a sensible solution to their problem.

It is very sad to see UK subjects trying to defend their country by comparing it to the worst countries in the world. The UK used to compare well with other peaceful countries with a good standard of living, but not anymore it seems.

It is horrendous that UK citizens often cannot live in the UK because the government has made it impossible for their spouses to live with them in the country. I honestly never imagined such a day would come.

It is very sad Atenco, especially as in my experience those that are targeted and can afford to leave are usually highly educated. They take their skills and any benefits they might bring to the ecomomy and invest them elsewhere. I know one woman who cannot afford to leave the UK, she currently cannot work as she has a three week old baby, her husband could easily support her in the UK, he can't come though because she earns under the 18,000 threshold to sponser him and her parents are retired so they cannot do it either. She is now forced to claim benefits as a single mother while he works in his country to get the funds together to bring her. Not ideal is it?

Dreadful and the father's bond with his child is suffering too

You forget the bond the grandparents will loose when she leaves. Based on the excange rate and high cost of living in his country, his earnings equal very little in £, so once she leaves it will probably be a long time before she can return to the UK. Her parents are elderly and her brother has a lot of health problems, so the only person who has a chance of travelling to her is her sister. She might come from a privileged country but I think she'd probably slap me if I said that to her!

Atenco It is very sad to see UK subjects trying to defend their country by comparing it to the worst countries in the world. The UK used to compare well with other peaceful countries with a good standard of living, but not anymore it seems.

It is horrendous that UK citizens often cannot live in the UK because the government has made it impossible for their spouses to live with them in the country. I honestly never imagined such a day would come.

I can think of many words to describe this, but "sad" wouldn't be the one that springs to mind. "Illuminating" possibly - because 40 or 50 years ago, we simply didn't have the levels of immigration from unrelated cultures that we have now.

I believe the key to successful movement within the EU is being "economically active" - there is opposition to benefits tourism, and for some that appears to include health benefits. These measures are set up to target that. If you get a job which pays as part of the salary these benefits, then there is less of a problem. In some of the posts above, such as *tomato's", I was left wondering why her DH, who has to be paid more highly than British engineers, wasn't offered a package which meets healthcare costs of spouse and dependents, and possibly immigration costs too.

Chandler what do you think of a non eu person who marries a uk person and is an average engineer or nurse, (so someone who could find average job but not a stellar job with a generous employer who could sponsor their visa application which costs thousands of pounds), not rely on benefits, do you think they should not be allowed to immigrate because their contribution to the economy would be average?

I don't think that Nolim. I would assume the requirements are to ensure that those who do emigrate would be able to contribute to the economy, not be a drain on it. The examples above are nearly all of hard working people, but we don't have many posters on here who are men, and who for example, have hunted for a bride from a much poorer country.

The EU cases on emigration sometimes involve such cases, and in fact are nearly always decided in favour of allowing the spouse to stay as there is presumed to a right to family life. The thinking is actually a bit sexist, as its assumed that the man (and it is always a man) will need a wife to look after the children. I think only when there are cases of those who have moved with no intention of ever becoming economically active have they been decided against.

But that's a benefit of EU membership. Rights extended to other citizens depends on the rules involving those countries and reciprocal arrangements (if any) and if the immigrant is economically active and able to finance it then there isn't such a problem.

In general though, I don't think its unreasonable to expect a person to save up to finance moving to another country - I think the expectation that its going to be cheap or free is a bit silly. DH and I looked into moving to Switzerland once, and although the salary was a bit higher, after costs and taking everything into account including not having citizenship rights in the country we moved to, we decided against it. Surely its a weighing up of pros and cons?

But do the posters on here realise how difficult and expensive it is for a non-EU spouse of a British citizen to move to the UK? I've forked out thousands for my husband's visa, paid many thousands more in lost earnings for the time my husband was unable to work due to visa applications (literally a year and a half), and after almost five years of marriage he still doesn't even have ILR. It's been total hell.

And we're the lucky ones, as I earn more than the 18,600 required to sponsor him in the first place. If you're a student or on a lower income you can't bring your spouse or kids over AT ALL. That has got to be a human rights issue.

And so many people keep telling me they though it was just a case of him filling in a form and being handed a British passport!

I totally get that immigration needs to be controlled and people need to contribute once they get to the UK and not just sponge. But the border agency is targeting the wrong people.