to wonder why people are entitled when it comes to benefits and general life?

[toomuchentitlement]

It is becoming increasingly obvious, from threads here and conversations with people IRL, that quite a lot of people are so entitled. Obviously, everyone is anxious about the budget coming out on the 8th and what the proposed cuts will be, and so most of the talk has been revolving around benefits and the Tories (the party and those who voted for them). It is beyond frustrating how much entitlement there is in this country!

Firstly, there are people who have lots of children and then complain that the government doesn’t give them enough to feed their children. Well – the government (i.e. the taxpayer) had no part in having these children so should you not be grateful for whatever amount they do give you? I firmly believe that when you have children, they are your responsibility. This is where people say ‘Should it only be the rich that have children?’. No , just those who can afford children – if you can only afford one then stop at one. If you cannot afford any , without ANY state help, then do not have any. If you choose to have more children than you can afford to have, then you accept that you and your children will suffer as a result of your selfish decision. Yes, I totally understand that sometimes you can have children that you can afford and then life changes course; these are not the circumstances that I’m talking about. I’m talking about people who are struggling with the children they have (or don’t have) and then decide to have more. Someone will talk about contraception failing – which is rare- and even then you have choices; abortion, adoption, keep your children and struggle.

Second key area I have noticed is about housing. So many people argue that they shouldn’t have to move house ( to find a job or to be in a cheaper area) because they have family around or they grew up in a certain area. Absolutely you don’t have to move – if you can afford to stay where you are without state help! If you are relying on the state to help you and complaining about lack of jobs, then you will have to move somewhere cheaper. Plenty of people move. Family will still be family wherever you are.

Finally (well there’s a lot more but I realised I’ve typed a lot) , is regarding work. There quite a few people who absolutely believe that we shouldn’t have to work more than part-time because its not family friendly. On some threads, I have noticed people make snide comments about ‘ what a shame they live to work and not work to live’ and insinuate that these are bad people. They will bitch about these people and tear down people in highly-paid jobs but then turn around and demand more from them (in tax). My point being ; if you do not approve of full time work or highly paid jobs, why then do you want to take so much from these people who earnt the money doing what you don’t approve of?

This was mainly to vent because it is getting ridiculous and I didn’t want to shout at my friends and family (the ones who also behave this way). Apologies for any typos in the very long post !

100% agree, PtolemysNeedle. I do think it's somewhat unfair that just because someone's parents lived in Surbiton, as opposed to say, Crewe, they should have an advantage of hundreds of thousands of pounds. Property price increases are leading to an unfairer society where merit and hard work will count for nothing.

OP how old are you?

I think those aged 45+ don't fully understand the challenges faced by those 35 and under. I'm fortunate that I am married to someone who at 39 makes stupid money. My salary is a joke and I blew the 48 hour working directive to pieces on a 75% schedule. I'm now on a 80% schedule and when I go back I will be working 50hrs/wk in regular wks and 90-100hrs/ wk in jan and feb.

Many of those on benefits are people like me who have 2 kids and are trying their best. They might now have a job that makes much but its better they stay working than stop and be stuck in min wage jobs forever.

I do agree that the OP has a point. There is something very wrong with the fact that a qualified accountant/ teacher/ actuary in the UK struggles to put a roof over their head and find two children through nursery. It's not that they are entitled but that after tax their outgoings are more than their income. This isn't just the first year but more like the first 7 years. Most families in the UK shouldn't need benefits if rents were reasonable and childcare costs not inflated due to stupid ratios.

We are in the US and it's not perfect here but they have a couple of great schemes that help parents. We are millionaires and use the Headstart program paying private rates. It's a fab program open to all needing childcare. Rent control is very fair here too. Our tenant has the right to stay on unless we need the space for our children and we can only increase the rent by a specific percentage decided by city hall plus increase in property taxes not covered by the increase in rent. Rent increase this year is about 1%.

Chuffin- it was terrible, I just don't know how they decided I was 'fine.' I was in tears at one point yet 'I engaged well with the assessor' apparently therefore I have no anxiety issues even though I spent a year in a psychiatric hospital. The system is unfair. The CAB ?ere stunned as I had so much evidence.

This again .

The old chestnut that those who don't earn enough to live on without any public funds whatsoever (no need for TC, CB etc.) just simply don't work hard enough.

Do you know what even 60 hours per week on a minimum wage job brings in after tax OP? Not enough to live on in certain parts of the UK, that's for certain. So, of course, these people should move to cheaper areas. Up north, out of sight of the good, hard working, educated people in the SE. Is that right?

If so, who's going to work in Nurseries looking after the babies & toddlers of the 'hard-working'? Who's going to provide care to the elderly? Who's going to clean places frequented by the 'hard-working' in their leisure time? All traditionally minimum wage jobs. There are hundreds more but I'm sure you get the point.

Yes, things need to change. Either wages need to rise for the poorest workers OR the cost of living in the UK (mainly housing costs) needs to fall considerably. If ALL jobs were paid at a fair rate & affordable housing was available nationally, then no-one working FT would need TC.

There is no 'Fancy Holiday In The Sun' or 'Brand New Car' benefit. Only benefits to allow people a chance to afford to live.

For mental health they're shocking

It's so inconsistent. DM has an acute mental health condition. When she's ill, she's very, very ill. When she's well, you'd never know anything was wrong with her.

She is far better off under PIP than she ever was under DLA. And she doesn't have to apply for far longer under PIP than DLA.

Waffly They either rely on family and friends for help (not strangers=state) or they make it work. If your family cannot support you, why do you expect strangers to do so for more than a year?

Jessica I think any changes made would have to be affecting children born 9 months after the date (can be applied to old people too)

shove I’m sure some of those working 60+ hours a week would feel they are subsidising those working 16 hours a week yet living just as comfortably.

I just want to make it clear, I’m not absolving the government of any blame. They definitely could do a lot more : housing, not allow so many people to be entitled to so many things (but their working on this! ), making companies pay a living wage etc

Bishop Not true. I have seen threads that clearly say they aren’t talking about disabled people but yet they still pop up! This isn’t even a thread about the cuts – its about entitled people complaining but not willing to improve their situation. And I have already said this does not apply to disabled people. As such, I will not be responding to those comments anymore ; you can refer to my previous post for my opinion on the matter.

Morethan The same benefits that have only recently been cut to some households? Yes, I am old enough to have received them. No we do not receive them now. And no, I didn’t complain when they were cut because I didn’t think I should be paid to have my children anyway.
I feel sorry the disabled and ill too. My sympathy for the others you have mentioned is limited – existent but limited .

Jamroll I have addressed your situation above- where circumstances change and I do believe that you should receive support for a certain amount of time.

toomuch
When dh became disabled we were old enough to have lost our parents but young enough for our children still to be at school. We are entitled to support. That's all there is to it.
Oh, and today, the Independent Living Fund has been shut down by the government. I find it interesting that you feel sorry for the disabled and ill, and yet not for others. How did they end up in the position they're in?
Not everyone is able to self help.
But hey ho, you sit in judgement on things you very obviously know little about.

I think there has to be acknowledgement of the fact that there are deserving benefit claimants and undeserving ones. Failure to accept this will lead to bigger cuts. Welfare is needed for those who really do need it.

Your fact, not mine. I think by dint of being alive and being human we are deserving of care and dignity and whatever benefits are needed.

some people do fiddle the benefit system, some because they can't see another way to survive except to tick an incorrect box on a form, some because they see a scheme and aren't stopped by their moral compass, but I would say they are the outliers.

I have never met anyone who has bragged about cheating the system, or who I've suspected of cheating the system, but I have known many who have have suffered from sanctions etc. and been left very vulnerable.

We don't have to have disabled people claiming tax credits though, they only do that because of the way the TC system was set up by labour.

We could choose to pay people money they are rightfully entitled to because of their disability instead of their hours worked or number of children, and then they'd be no different to anyone else when it comes to tax credit entitlement.

Waffly They either rely on family and friends for help (not strangers=state) or they make it work. If your family cannot support you, why do you expect strangers to do so for more than a year?

Ok so what if they don't have family or friends who can or will help them? What does 'make it work' mean?

OP- But what about, for example, NI contribution based JSA?

I.e. if someone has already contributed a fair amount over their working life, and will continue to do so in the future?

Not meant aggressively - genuine question.

How about we all get benefits. Every citizen gets credited with funds/vouchers for 2000-2500 calories of food a day, x number of kWh of energy, a clothing allowance, a housing allowance, household allowance etc all only redeemable against the specific category. Then everyone should have basic food, shelter and clothing. Anyone who wants more can then work for it. Anyone who couldn't work for whatever reason (pensioner, disabled) would get extra funds like now. Most people will want to work as most people seem to want the nicer things in life - new mobile phone, fancy cars, holidays, nice furnishings, nice clothes, satellite TV etc.
It would be ridiculously impractical to implement but people couldn't complain about folk on benefits as we all would be receiving them.

Well said MrsDeVere

Don't half read some bollox on here sometimes.

So, OP, with all your money, do you seriously think you're better than someone in, say, a minimum wage job such as cleaning (maybe in a hospital, maybe the streets, maybe your house or workplace), caring (maybe for your elderly relative), working in a shop etc? More deserving to have children, more hard working, more intelligent?

Because you're not. You just got lucky.

I earn a decent wage pissing around with bits of paper. Hardly an essential job. How do you earn your decent wage?

Partly, these decent wages and ability to save are built on the back of people not earning much. Because many staff at Asda are on low wages, I benefit from cheaper goods. The pittance given in tax credits is nothing compared to what I'm saving if my weekly shopping bill reflected a fair wage.

And if those people who can't afford to live in London have to move out, then good luck to the ones left behind when they have no newspapers at their local shop, or even a local shop at all, when their bins aren't emptied and so on and so on.

Plus, thankfully there is no "deserving" criteria to claim benefits, just eligibility. You don't have to beg and kowtow to get money to which you are statutorily entitled. If we went down that road, OP, are you so confident that you would be judged "deserving"?

Society is for everyone and there is no benefit to anyone when some of its members are in grinding poverty, whether they are in work or unemployed (and, tbh, there may be some workshy unemployed people but no higher a percentage than you'll find in an average office block or in the Commons. Because unemployed people are just like the rest of us, only poorer). Society isn't just for the rich.

Getting so het up now that I'll be singing about red flags and yelling "Come The Revolution" next .

I can't see how fraud is relevant to the post you just quoted.

People don't need to commit fraud, they are entitled to plenty perfectly legally. Those who do commit fraud are no different to tax evaders, and the numbers of each type of criminal isn't relevant to the OP.

'I'm alright, Jack'

allthepretty here here!!!!

so I write this whilst wearing a t-shirt which says 'I'm entitled because my marriage fell apart and I struggle, despite working full-time in a professional, demanding job'...

I happily pay my taxes so that the (so-called, barely evidenced by credible researchers) feckless who breed without impunity and believe they are entitled to as least as good a standard of living as everyone who works full time.

I happily pay taxes so the feckless don't work because I don't want to live in a country where:

• children must work
• many children don't attend school because there is a charge for it (albeit a small one, often)
• many children don't attend school because their parents need them to earn an income to keep their household going
• children live on the streets
• children are begging or rummaging around garbage dumps to earn a few pennies
• we are able to live without the threat of guns on our streets in the hands of people who are happy to use them for anything and everything
• the police are unarmed
• poorer people don't need to steal to feed their children
• poorer people have opportunities - genuine opportunities (education, healthcare, food on the table, clothes on their backs) - which result in them working harder rather than giving up and resorting to crime to get what everyone else has
• where running water and electricity are installed in all houses
• where communities are planned, services are installed and no one is having to illegally hook themselves up to the electric/gas/water to feed/clean their children (or themselves)
• the rich have to live in gated communities, in genuine fear of their lives because they 'have' and the 'have nots' are armed, angry and willing to take risks to get what they need (let alone what they want)
• where public servants are paid a decent wage and are not open to bribery and corruption
• where gang culture is the only viable work opportunity for young people
• where I don't live in fear of walking down my high street with a purse full of cash ...

.....I could go on. By all means, cap benefits, get rid of benefits all together - it will affect me because I will struggle but I say this very loud and clear. If I am going to struggle - as a teacher on a decent wage, there are a lot of people earning a lot less than me who are going to struggle even more. And I am not personally proud to live somewhere we don't look after our own, no matter how much they may (or may not) deserve our support. And I fear - really, really fear - this country being no better a place to live than many Third World countries within 15 years.