to wonder why people are entitled when it comes to benefits and general life?

[toomuchentitlement]

It is becoming increasingly obvious, from threads here and conversations with people IRL, that quite a lot of people are so entitled. Obviously, everyone is anxious about the budget coming out on the 8th and what the proposed cuts will be, and so most of the talk has been revolving around benefits and the Tories (the party and those who voted for them). It is beyond frustrating how much entitlement there is in this country!

Firstly, there are people who have lots of children and then complain that the government doesn’t give them enough to feed their children. Well – the government (i.e. the taxpayer) had no part in having these children so should you not be grateful for whatever amount they do give you? I firmly believe that when you have children, they are your responsibility. This is where people say ‘Should it only be the rich that have children?’. No , just those who can afford children – if you can only afford one then stop at one. If you cannot afford any , without ANY state help, then do not have any. If you choose to have more children than you can afford to have, then you accept that you and your children will suffer as a result of your selfish decision. Yes, I totally understand that sometimes you can have children that you can afford and then life changes course; these are not the circumstances that I’m talking about. I’m talking about people who are struggling with the children they have (or don’t have) and then decide to have more. Someone will talk about contraception failing – which is rare- and even then you have choices; abortion, adoption, keep your children and struggle.

Second key area I have noticed is about housing. So many people argue that they shouldn’t have to move house ( to find a job or to be in a cheaper area) because they have family around or they grew up in a certain area. Absolutely you don’t have to move – if you can afford to stay where you are without state help! If you are relying on the state to help you and complaining about lack of jobs, then you will have to move somewhere cheaper. Plenty of people move. Family will still be family wherever you are.

Finally (well there’s a lot more but I realised I’ve typed a lot) , is regarding work. There quite a few people who absolutely believe that we shouldn’t have to work more than part-time because its not family friendly. On some threads, I have noticed people make snide comments about ‘ what a shame they live to work and not work to live’ and insinuate that these are bad people. They will bitch about these people and tear down people in highly-paid jobs but then turn around and demand more from them (in tax). My point being ; if you do not approve of full time work or highly paid jobs, why then do you want to take so much from these people who earnt the money doing what you don’t approve of?

This was mainly to vent because it is getting ridiculous and I didn’t want to shout at my friends and family (the ones who also behave this way). Apologies for any typos in the very long post !

Some people have children while employed, then through no fault of their own are made redundant.
so is that ok?

I find it sad that working doesn't pay and that people don't want to consider having to balance more than one job to balance the books.

I also get a bit about the entitlement to be a sahm which is a largely modern (as in 20th century) phenomenon.

No one seems to want to earn the gadgets, gizmos and holidays they all seem to think you can't live without them and they are as essential as water or a pair of school shoes for the kids.

But on the flip side, working doesn't pay any more, especially in the south East. People have become too greedy about property and making profit to the detriment of their children. I pray for a monumental housing crash and hope one day, like my parents, I too can buy a house in the south East for £50k and see its value rise to nearly £1/2millon whilst paying off the mortgage before you're 50....

Norah, if you are poor, your family and friends are much more likely to be poor. And people do help each other out. But buying £10 worth of shopping once in a while, is very different to supporting another family. Something that only the well off could do.

shoudl such people,,who fall on hard times, wear special Hard Times Shirts, a uniform perhaps, so they dont get tarred with the same brush as the feckless who had children regardless of whether they could afford it?

**I do think we have got totally away from the idea of relying on family or friends in difficult times.

The state / gov/ tax payer/ high earners/ council/ SS/ NHS/ Education Dept / anyone other than you or anyone connected to you, should solve the problem.**

This

so what happens then, if you work hard, save money, buy a house near your family, get married, have a couple of children who your family helps to care for so u can pay your mortgage, then your dh becomes violent and leaves.....

You can't afford your mortgage repayments so you lose your house, you are housed by the state away from your family, so you lose your job because you can't afford childcare,

SO you are now surviving on benefits and tax credits and can no longer pay for your children....

Does that mean you should no longer have had them as you can't pay for them? You probably feel very entitled as you paid into the state for so long!!!

There's so much wrong with your post OP. How can you just someones circumstances by their cover?

I don't (personally) feel entitled to anything. But I want to live in a society where children don't live in poverty, regardless of their parents choices. When I see people struggling I tend to think "how can I help?" Rather than "well you made poor choices so tough shit". I thought most people felt like that, and that whichever way people were voting it was because they disagreed about how to help, rather than about wanting or not wanting to help at all.

are you my work colleague OP?
the one whobashes criticizes me for being part time?

as said upthread, why arent you at work, ? if you are mumsnetting from work surely you should be up for a disciplinary,

"judge" not just

Because there are idiots out there who follow you from thread to thread. If I was going to start a "controversial" thread I'd change mine too...

That's one possible reason, or another is the OP may have lots of things in their history that proves them to be a goady hypocrite.

Either way, it's a bit odd to change from one anonymous name to another anonymous name and then back again, once the 'controversial' thread is finished.

I don't trust the guardian. It's as far left as the mail is right.

i really am not worried about being flamed as i know that the majority of MN has left wing views but I know IRL people are taking on a more right wing approach.
I name-changed because I didn't want to have this thread referenced every time I posted in different threads.
And Noah I did talk about people who have fallen on hard times. I'm not saying I know all the answers but just saying that these people do not frustrate me as much those who purposely have more children because they want to. In my opinion, these people are very selfish.

I just feel like the welfare state should be there for survival. Perhaps, the state could support someone for a year(?) to help them get back on their feet and then there would be a lot more money to help disabled people live comfortable lives. I live in hope anyway.

Chuffin - Plenty of people have more than one job. But the Working Time Directive says nobody should regularly work more than 48 hours a week, because working longer than that has a negative impact on your health. Your health is much more important.

toomuchentitlement - So why are disabled people being more impacted than any other group by the cuts? Why has the Independent Living Fund been cut?

It's not about entitlement. It's about survival.
People are not going to let their children go bare foot and hungry to please you.
And if they've paid their taxes. It is certainly none of your business. As it is their money,

Inheritance tax is fine the "they paid tax on it already" argument which is farmed out is garbage.

99% of the 9% of the country who pay it will pay it on property, which has gained dramatically in value in the last 20 years so is generally unearned income. Untaxed it entrenches privilege to a few, but takes advantage of the benefits of society paid for by the many, there should be a contribution.

If and when having children becomes open only to the affluent then we will see a massive problem in this country. We need to encourage people to have children in order to keep the country functioning (FYI Your NI does not pay your pension, just those of the current OAPS, the young will pay yours). Child benefit allows people a very basic existence as it is, and also partially protects children from their parents bad decisions.

Secondly data proves that there is less than a 1 % of the population who have been reliant on benefits for more than one generation. Most benefits are paid to those in work. (www.jrf.org.uk/publications/cultures-of-worklessness)

Which brings us to the answer to your final question, why are companies entitled? This is why everyone else needs to have benefits.

If all work paid enough to live on there would be no need for WTC, but really WTC are a subsidy on corporate profit. How many "business leaders" give to the tory party?

If the Government would build enough affordable housing ( creating jobs, stimulating the economy etc) the HB bill would be vastly smaller, but it is in the interest of Landlords not to do this as HB is paid direct to them, lack of supply allows them to maximise profit from rent. Many MPs are landlords and it suits many others too, especially as a shortage in housing drives up prices making home owners feel wealthier.

If corporations actually paid their fair share of tax, you know cause they benefit from the services provided by health, education, legal and social parts of government, there wouldn't be such a need. Instead it is estimated that £40 billion of tax is avoided through clever loop holes.

People are entitled to expect a decent standard of living for their work, and for the most vulnerable in society to be looked after. Instead they are demonised and exposed to the kind of vitriol which only comes from the insular and self interested.

The most entitled ARE the wealthy, the corporations. They benefit from living here, they benefit from the British population being healthy, educated etc etc. Yet they don't want to contribute their share, very entitled if you ask me.

unemployment benefit only lasts for 6 months if your partner earns a certain amount.

Noah different jobs, different rules

Jessica Trust me , I want to help people and I do in many ways. I just believe that when the state cannot afford to help everyone, the most vulnerable should be helped ; disabled people who are in a situation they can do nothing about (i'm not disabled btw). Like i said, i think we should be able to help people when they fall on hard times, but only for a limited time. I fear that a big welfare state will continue the poverty trap for people.

But this was mainly me venting about entitlement

People keep saying the disabled are being adversely affected but as a disabled person and one who works I can't see where these cuts are happening.

Genuine post not a goady one.

Regarding the moving away for economic reasons... there's ALWAYS a double standard here from right wingers. When people complain that housing costs are too high, they're told they should up sticks to a cheaper part of the country. Well those parts are cheaper for a reason... there's high unemployment and/or low wages. When people complain that they can't find a job paying a decent enough wage, they're told they should move to an economic hot spot like London/SE... where housing costs are sky high. There's very few opportunities for wages vs housing arbitrage left in the country, and those places quickly become discovered and push house prices up quickly.

People have good reasons for staying in their locality, old fashioned small-c values like community, heritage, family, care for elderly relatives, stability, continuity of education etc etc, not a sense of overarching entitlement. Modern Tory & neoliberal policy is actually mitigating against the former's value set, it is very fragmentary and detrimental to overall social cohesion.

Too much entitlement. I think you need to get your head out of the clouds love.
Have you not heard about all the cuts, deaths suicides and people using food banks.