to wonder why people are entitled when it comes to benefits and general life?

[toomuchentitlement]

It is becoming increasingly obvious, from threads here and conversations with people IRL, that quite a lot of people are so entitled. Obviously, everyone is anxious about the budget coming out on the 8th and what the proposed cuts will be, and so most of the talk has been revolving around benefits and the Tories (the party and those who voted for them). It is beyond frustrating how much entitlement there is in this country!

Firstly, there are people who have lots of children and then complain that the government doesn’t give them enough to feed their children. Well – the government (i.e. the taxpayer) had no part in having these children so should you not be grateful for whatever amount they do give you? I firmly believe that when you have children, they are your responsibility. This is where people say ‘Should it only be the rich that have children?’. No , just those who can afford children – if you can only afford one then stop at one. If you cannot afford any , without ANY state help, then do not have any. If you choose to have more children than you can afford to have, then you accept that you and your children will suffer as a result of your selfish decision. Yes, I totally understand that sometimes you can have children that you can afford and then life changes course; these are not the circumstances that I’m talking about. I’m talking about people who are struggling with the children they have (or don’t have) and then decide to have more. Someone will talk about contraception failing – which is rare- and even then you have choices; abortion, adoption, keep your children and struggle.

Second key area I have noticed is about housing. So many people argue that they shouldn’t have to move house ( to find a job or to be in a cheaper area) because they have family around or they grew up in a certain area. Absolutely you don’t have to move – if you can afford to stay where you are without state help! If you are relying on the state to help you and complaining about lack of jobs, then you will have to move somewhere cheaper. Plenty of people move. Family will still be family wherever you are.

Finally (well there’s a lot more but I realised I’ve typed a lot) , is regarding work. There quite a few people who absolutely believe that we shouldn’t have to work more than part-time because its not family friendly. On some threads, I have noticed people make snide comments about ‘ what a shame they live to work and not work to live’ and insinuate that these are bad people. They will bitch about these people and tear down people in highly-paid jobs but then turn around and demand more from them (in tax). My point being ; if you do not approve of full time work or highly paid jobs, why then do you want to take so much from these people who earnt the money doing what you don’t approve of?

This was mainly to vent because it is getting ridiculous and I didn’t want to shout at my friends and family (the ones who also behave this way). Apologies for any typos in the very long post !

Many people don't choose to work part time. Many employers only offer short hour contracts.

You would be hard pushed to find a full time job in retail.

I wish the level of vitriol for those on benefits was equal to thetax evaders and tax loophole using big corps. But it won't ever be that way, we worry in case they get upset with us. Anyone who thinks that demonising the poor and soothing the big companies etc doesn't happen is a fool.

Dp may lose his job soon, if he does we will claim full housing benefit and anything else we can. I'm only in a 16 hour contract and I'm job hunting but wages are too low. Introducing a living wage would help so much. The minimum wage and the increase that happens this year is a fucking joke. Again anyone who opposes it is a bit of a bastard

Usual suspect is right we only hire part time workers (small number of full time) as they are flexible (willing to work extra) and willing to work late and Saturday and Sundays each week. Handy for single parents.

Most people will support the first post, as do I. It's why we all voted the Tories in. Gravy trains are out. Get grafting.

Gravy train? Or fair deal? Given the fact that most essential, dirty, back-breaking jobs are low paid, I think the evidence points to the latter. We need home helps and sewage workers more than we need bankers etc.

ps - 37% of actual votes cast ain't equal to we all voted the Tories in*. Just a bit of basic maths - useful in those well paid jobs .

thewireless.co.nz/articles/the-pencilsword-on-a-plate

I think the most "entitled" people are those who pay their employees fuck all whilst raking in huge profits and trying to avoid paying tax.
Most wealthy people were fortunate enough to be born fairly intelligent and be in the right place at the right time. Many have had privileged upbringings. It's extremely arrogant to get all sneery about poor people and believe that you got where you entirely down to your own hard work.

Some of the poorest people on this planet are the hardest workers (usually exploited by the weathly "entitled" west).

In Praise of Idleness

If housing was more affordable, no one would need to claim housing benefit anyway. Same with tax credits, if the cost of living was not so high and wages comparatively low, no one would have to claim that either.

and housing is the big killer. i've lived in a number of countries and other costs seem to be in line with other places (food, clothing etc). In fact, the UK does rather well on cost of living outside of housing.

A huge portion of London get some form of help with their housing, but somehow the debate has shifted towards the feckless. The tories (and labour) have successfully shifted the debate away from their massive failings in housing.

BumpTheElephant,
That's 100% true! I can blooming well vouch for it!

The managing director of the company I work for is also my direct line manager/boss/whatever you want to call it and he owns this business because it was handed down to him from his father, and his father has helped him forge it into what it is now. Because he is the managing director (and because I share an office with him) I can physically SEE the tax-dodging shit he does, while he pays me the most paltry wage for the work I do. Believe me, he is the most entitled person I know, he thinks everything should be done for him and expects the people he pays pennies to run his company for him.

I've been here 4 years and I'm on less than someone who started a year ago...
I don't even know why I'm here.

We did not all vote the Tories in. I do wish people would get their heads out of the sand and stop benefit bashing. As I keep saying everyone's circumstances are different. It is not easy to get benefits. All these ridiculous t.v. programmes are poisoning people. No-one's job is 100% safe. Redundancy can happen to anyone and when it does the next stop is Job Centre Plus.

AllThePrettySeahorses I very much enjoyed reading your post. Thank you.

Quiero Did the teenagers have any success in finding work / training?

I LOVE these threads - they always start with those spouting about the deserving/undeserving then when posters pipe up with their personal stories the same people always reply 'we didn't mean YOU, silly!!' So, who DO you mean? Because the lazy, feckless, work-shy is most definitely a capitalist myth. I meet a lot of these people in my work that some of you would turn your noses up at; without exception they have experienced mental health issues, sexual abuse in childhood, DV, illiteracy, learning disabilities, etc. You may outwardly see an underserving heroin addict, those that support them and hear their stories see something entirely different.

Your argument would only be valid if everyone began at the same starting line; for some they are carried around the track, others are supported and cheered along the way and some start with rocks chained to their feet.

Never underestimate the value of family security, a decent education, opportunities - for some a NMW job is an impossible dream whilst they fight their demons.

One of my best friends educationally could wipe the floor with most, she's VERY intelligent. Most days she can barely leave her house due to long term mental health problems which have kept her prisoner in her own head for years. She has been abused her entire life, raped continuously as a child. Outwardly most would probably see her as lazy, an opinion she is painfully aware of and adds to her anxiety about claiming benefits. She's not lazy, she's had a shit life with very few choices and is suffering the consequences. She's also a victim of 'austerity', her benefits have been cut and she is struggling to survive (I can almost hear the cheers from here! Well done Cameron)

Of course, I'm sure none of you 'hard-workers' were talking about 'people like her' though.

(Is the OP still pretending to be working farrrrr too hard to reply? )

Lemmein When talking about the 'undeserving'. they probably mean people like my brother who has 5 DCs and works only when the Job Centre put enough pressure on him - probably less than 2 years out the 15 since he left school - his wife is a SAHM of course. Their benefit income was above the benefit cap, and we live in the north, so it's not like most of it goes on rent.

Or another relative, also with 5 DCs, where both parents work exactly the right number of hours to maximise tax credits but pay no childcare. They own their house outright so don't need HB, but still receive about £1500 a month in CB, CTC, WTC and council tax benefit.

Or my next door neighbour, a single woman, who spends most of the summer sat in her garden drinking and going on about how she would never work full time, because she's no better off than working part time plus top ups.

Or a relative of my SIL, who is the mother of eight DCs and is still married to her DH, and is clearly still in a sexual relationship with him, but 'can't live with him' so they have two council houses where they each claim as lone parents.

All healthy adults who could work more hours, but choose not to, at the tax payers expense. But of course, this is Mumsnet, and people like this do not exist .

Yes, of course people with disabilities should receive help, as should people who have suffered bereavement, redundancy or serious illness, but we can't keep on supporting people for years on end while they have as many DCs as they like as an alternative to paid work.

Er...that wasn't my point!!
My point was that we are all in such a precarious position (unless you are independently wealthy)
My bil earned silly money.
My sister never to worry or budget.
Things have changed and she is job hunting after 12 years as a sahm.
Some people seem to thing that is "could never happen to them"
Erm...yeah. It could. Easily.

'All healthy adults who could work more hours, but choose not to'

Hmm, 'WorktoLive' the only circumstances we can ever fully know are our own. I know many, many people I could write a little judgmental 'undeserving' list for; truth is I know fuck all about their situation, just what I think I see, or the gossip I hear. Those that I work with, therefore am privy to their personal circumstances, seriously without exception, have a reason for being in the predicament they're in. Granted, some of you may consider the reasons unworthy of support, but still, it's never (in my experience, of course) so simple as being 'too lazy'.

Also agree with the poster who said those that work the hardest are usually the most lowest paid. Lets stop with the capitalist bullshit of hard work is the answer to all of societies ills - it isn't. Its the equivalent to the 'American Dream' bullshit, 'work hard and you can achieve anything' - insane how its generally accepted that giving a child the best start generally equals healthy, confident adults yet those adults who have had shit starts, well they are just lazy bastards aren't they? Dig deeper FFS!

Some of you are David Cameron's wet dream!

Way to go, lemmein

OliveCane Tue 30-Jun-15 23:47:44
Why do people feel entitled to inherit vast amount of gentry land because of social class, that they haven't worked a penny for and should be land that belongs to everyone?

Do you think then all land should be nationalised? Would people be able to own their house and garden, or do you think all property should be owned by the state?

Does housing benefit go straight to landlord?

Yes

Hmm, well, benefit cuts are hugely popular. Poverty porn programmes are made because they get high ratings. I think Lotus does live in the real world and is reflecting a popular, mainstream opinion. Just because I think it's wrong does not make it unreal.

Housing benefit does not go straight to the landlord except in certain circumstances, which doesn't happen often. It used to be more common for it to go directly to the landlord, but too many people made wrongful claims and despite it being their fault if there was an overpayment, it was the landlords that got chased for the money. So now it mostly goes directly to the tenant, which fits in with the Tory idea of making people budget and be responsible for managing the money themselves.