Sueing for gross misconduct / negligence / failing to report broken arm

[Kerrance]

Hi the situation is this my son whos just 3. This friday i picked him up from nursery at 5 (he goes 4 days aweek 9-5) he looked very pale and was irritable. Staff said nothing to me about ANY kind of injury/acident or voiced any concerns after arriving home i noticed he was holding hos arm in a strage postion, i saw his arm was very swollen. When asked about it his words were "i fell over at nursery and couldnt stand up B** (staff member) had to carry me", far from being very annoyed nothing was said. I try and call but its closed I applied cold compress and he eventually driffed off to sleep in my arms. Hours later he wakes with the most horrific cry.... We rush to AnE its now 7.45AM..... He is xrayed = greenstick fracture to his right wrist he is put in a semi pot banage to allow swelling to go down....monday morning is our app for full pot on.... My question is do i call the nursery in the morning and ask to see the RIDDOR report or should i arrange a meeting and ask for it then ( i dont want to allow then time to cover it up) which ever way its looked at they have been negligent in informing me of a serious injury / no one saw the fall (left unsupervised) breaching the duty of care/ it was logged as minor injury- if so they need to retrain staff in 1st aid and i want a full incident report and to know whom is held accountable ....... Am lost as to which is the correct approach and what to say to ensure im taken seriously and its dealt wiv properly.... Any help very much appreciated

i watched my DD fracture her arm going down a slide, perfectly sensibly. No idea how she did it. She wasn't left unsupervised and I don't think I did anything neglectful. At A&E they were surprised to see her so soon. The norm is for parents to bring them in the next day or so, not straight away, because these things are so hard to spot. She cried, then stopped, like with any other bump. It was only a few seconds of thinking her arm looked a bit odd that made me take her in, and I so nearly talked myself out of it.

There should have been an accident report perhaps, but please calm down about suing etc. These things often just look like any other bump. It's emotive that his arm has been fractured, and you are understandably worried and protective of him but honestly it is so easily done.

There won't be a RIDDOR form filled out for this. As a pp said he want taken directly to hospital for treatment.

I also doubt it would meet the criteria for work related injury either, although that's less important as the first criteria wasn't met.

Hope he's feeling better

Not sure why people are comparing your not realising he was hurt with the nursery not realising he was hurt.

What? The child told his mum as soon as she picked him up that his arm hurt, that he had fallen over, and that he had needed assistance to get up. So she did realise he was hurt and still she left it 15 hours to take him to hospital. I think it is a valid comparison to make!

us he will have made a fuss at the time of the incident and perhaps not so much later on while in the OP's care.

How do you know?

Little children fall all the time at nursery. Unless he was constantly complaining of a sore arm or not using his arm (and given it took til the next morning for the op to take him to be checked perhaps he wasn't?) then im not sure what was to be expected really.

My dad is a nurse and I still ended up walking round on a broken ankle for 48 hours as a child. These things happen, certainly ask nursery what happened but don't go in all guns blazing.

Your 3 year old with hypermobile ankles fell over. I'd suggest that in a nursery environment this happens quite frequently. They would have checked his ankles and given him a cuddle and in the absence of other symptoms they probably wouldn't have noticed a (not inflamed at this point and probably still in place) greenstick fracture.
They aren't going to report every fall to you as he has a condition which makes him more likely to fall over anyway. I'm sorry that you have had a scare and that he's been uncomfortable. I hope he feels better soon.
YWBNU to contact the nursery, explain what has happened and ask for an explanation.
YWBVU to sue.

My 15YO SD has hypermobile joints and last summer at a ceilidh she slipped and dislocated her knee, falling heavily. On picking her up to put on a chair it popped back in with a nasty crunch sound. We strapped it and gave her painkillers and she seems OK. Bearing in mind that she is a very eloquent 15 year old and perfectly able to tell us anything that's wrong, it wasn't until next morning she told us her wrist was hurting from the fall: it turned out to be a scaphoid break and very painful. The point is we were concerned about the cause of the fall (her hypermobility) and the fall itself and her knee. Having ascertained that all those were OK and in the absence of any sign of wrist injury at that point it never occurred to us to do anything else.

The staff member dealt with the injured child but did not report it to their parent - that's the issue.

We know, Klayden, and I agree it's bad. But in order to sue you have to show that damage to the child resulted from it. What damage did in fact result from that specific failure?

If they had told the OP about the incident she or them could have got the child to A&E quickly

SilverBirch, presumably not, given that despite being told that her DS had fallen over and noticed that the arm was very swollen she didn't take him. I'm not blaming OP for that, but again it demonstrates that reporting it to OP wouldn't have changed anything.

so why would you think he was badly hurt, especially as they hadn't told you he'd fallen.

Maybe because of said swollen arm and the fact that he said he'd fallen, SophieJenkins?

Ici I agree with you in that I think threatening to sue is fecking bonkers. However, I do think OP has a real reason to complain though. They should have written it down and alerted the OP to an injury.

Ive no interest in financial gain tbh. All i want is them to legally realise that they were at fault and knew but choose not to inform me. My child is disabled he has problems walking so it wasnt just a tumble. The doctor said hes fallen with considerable force maybe down a step.... His break is not consistant with just a tumble

They should have informed you in line with their normal procedure for accidents. I'd ask to see the policy. I'm a teacher and there have been occasions when a child has hurt themselves, normal first aid has been given, accident recorded, child seems fine, parents informed. It's then later turned out to be a break or fracture. Sometimes these things aren't obvious and we don't know. You yourself didn't realise for 15 hours!

Absolutely they should have informed you, so that you knew what happened, when it happened, what first aid was given, how he seemed, to keep an eye, watch for swelling etc...

But suing?? You must be mad.

We had a 4 year old do something very similar in nursery a few weeks back. The child fell over inside and was helped back up. She said she hurt her arm but didn't cry. Staff put on a cold compress and gave cuddles for a few minutes before she went off to play again. Accident form filled in, which is normal standard procedure, we do accident forms for every slight injury. A little while later the staff noticed the child was holding her arm so we phoned her mum so she could get it checked. She had a pretty nasty break.

I should have been notified ... A report should have been logged.... He goes to bed at 6.30 so apart from the cold compress and cuddles (Because i was unaware of any kind of serious fall) ... Yes his condition means he tumbles and is supposed to be continously monitored during any active play....i did as most mums would put him in bes with me to keep close eye on him. The second i supected there was more too it i was at ane.

The nursery should have told you he fell etc and I would complain. I'm not sure that gives you the right to sue for either negligence or breach of contract though...Am sure one of those ambulance chasing claims firms cd tell you. Gross misconduct relates to employer / employee relationships.

But why on earth did you not take him to hospital when he told you he fell? You said he was pale, holding his arm in a funny way and it was swollen. But you didn't do anything -and you are criticising the nursery for not telling you!? You did nothing when you did know he'd fallen and you noticed symptoms of an injury

Thats the way any parent would expect staff to resond but in this case it dis not at all. Yes he was helped up but still nothing was said to me

Yes you definitely should have been notified and the accident logged. As I say, we do accident forms for everything, even if we haven't seen the incident. ie: if we notice a child has a small scratch but don't know how they did it. I don't know if suing the nursery is the best option as they probably couldn't have prevented the fall, but I would expect them to tighten up on their policies and procedures.

You say you have no interest in financial gain yet your thread title directly contradicts that.

All your posts show £ signs... You want them to legally recognise what they did wrong.
I have seen nothing that says you are concerned about his care...How will accidents be prevented .

I broke my leg badly at school when I was 5. Kept at school all afternoon as no swelling. all I did was fall over in the playground. it happens..

My Ds has had to go to hosp when I have realised something was wrong ( wasn't broken bone) I am not sure what his bedtime has to do with it.

Yes you should of been informed assuming your DS version of events are truethful. I have been told all sorts by my Ds such as he has had nothing to eat and drink all day, he has sat on the carpet all day waiting for me, I also get a version of events which discount anything he thinks I might think he was in the wrong.

Yes speak to them obviously then make judgements

No need to try and get money from them.

My son had a greenstick fracture at around that age - it went undiagnosed for days even after being xrayed twice.

Greenstick fractures are very different to snapped bones that adults have.

Toddlers fall. Accidents happen.

Greenstick fractures are regularly missed.

Toddlers regularly fall.

Toddlers with hypermobile joints fall more regularly and more awkwardly.

Greenstick fractures often do not hurt any more than your average tumble at the time.

A 3yo recollection of events is rarely minute perfect.

A doctor could not look at an xray of a Greenstick and surmise, absolutely, all the things you have said.

You can't leap into an incident like this with "i want them to know legally they........" like with anything else you start at the beginning and behave like a rational human being. On the face of it it seems that the only thing the nursery didn't do was mention a 3yo fell over - which is not something I'd expect to have reported unless there was other factors. Stop raging and looking for someone to blame or you're going to cause more problems than you solve.

Why have you started two almost identical threads on this op? Did I miss that somewhere?

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/nurseries/2413452-Nursery-Failed-to-infom-me-of-a-broken-arm

Sue if you want nursery fees go up for everyone due to insurance costs spiralling. When I was 5 I had a green stick fracture for a month before anyone diagnosed it ..

Op you remind me of an ex friend who was constantly suing people for things like this to fund her childrens savings accounts.
The nursery were sloppy but green stick fractures happen very easily in healthy children and can go missed

Yes, Sue. That way the member of staff the didn't tell you will get sacked, the nursery staff will have yet more paperwork to fill in every time a child falls over, they will be so busy filling in said paperwork they will have less time for fun with children and you will get cash!! Everyone's a winner, except childhood freedom which is dying faster than the dodo!

Hinest to God, accidents happen,, children fall over and hurt themselves, yes they should have told you so why not just explain that to them? I'm sure whoever was working will feel bad enough about it, I'm surprised children are actually allowed to play outside these days!!

I fractured my arm by falling from the second step and it took me two days to realise that I may have had a fracture. They can be quite easily missed, I hate this suing culture unless there is a loss of income or care costs.

OP, please don't worry, people ALWAYS do this on AIBU (or MN in general) - if anyone mentions legal action, everyone says 'Oh you want money, don't try and pretend you don't' however much you insist it isn't about that but about assuring a change in protocol or whatever.

I've been flamed for that before when I had no intention at all of getting any money out of anyone. People just don't believe anyone could not want compensation. It's weird.

How is he this morning?