To think where is the outrage to 15 British slaughtered in Tunisia

[Inkanta]

I think there was a time when the British would be outraged but are we numbing out to these atrocities now. We were outraged when ISIS started these beheadings and now we seem to be getting used to that as well.

[NewFlipFlops]

Thanks TTAT.

[Wideopenspace]

Kard - the police would disagree with you - recruitment to radical NF type organisations is a huge problem.

It's very much linked, as well, to the whole ISIS media storm - many, many people see NF type groups as being a way of 'fighting' the ISIS issue.

I'm not sure the average NF recruit is any more or less dim than the average ISIS recruit - equally brainwashed though.

[Signlake]

new why are they 'more like you'?

People are feeling this way because it was people of their nationality that were targeted and gunned down simply because of their nationality

[TheOnlyOliviaMumsnet]

Afternoon

[Kardamyli]

WIDE, are you in the police, or do you just have access to information which isn't in the public domain? I'd be interested to hear more. Agree though that both ISIS and NF people are both stupid and brainwashed.

[Wideopenspace]

Afternoon Olivia

[Signlake]

Thankfully the NF idiots haven't beheaded anyone in the name of their cause though

[Wideopenspace]

No, I'm in education - we've been doing lots of recent staff training on youth radicalisation - it's really eye opening and interesting.

Agreed. ISIS (and similar), NF (and similar) stupid and brainwashed in equal measure. Which is why education is the key, I think.

[Kardamyli]

I still find it hard to believe that kids being radicalised to join the NF is a problem on the scale of Islamic radicalisation.

[seagreengirl]

You're comparing recruits to ISIS with recruits to the NF Get real.

[mombie]

I am outraged and really saddened by what has happened. For all of the unnecessary death and loss. I was in tunisia last October with my family and I keep wondering what I would have done in that situation, how would I have collected my kids together and got them to safety.

I don't think that my being Muslim would have stopped them from attacking me, because to them I am a westerner. It hasn't stopped Isis from killing countless Muslims to date who don't agree with their warped views. I am yet to meet a fellow Muslim who agrees with anything Isis stands for. For those people who don't believe me, you are forgetting that there are plenty of Muslims in this country who know the sacrifices that their grandparents and great grandparents made to make lives for themselves here. Through hard work blood and tears we established our homes and identities as British Muslims here, only to see it being ruined by trigger happy jumped up little shits.

It is an easy conclusion to come to, but I resent being told how I feel about Isis because I am yet to take part in a poll. I worry every day about what the future holds for my kids who are both British and Muslim. I am pretty sure that they will be getting it from all angles.
But tbh this isn't about me, it's about the suffering of ALL of those who have been affected by what has happened. My heart goes out to all of those people

[Wideopenspace]

I'm stating what the police are saying - that radicalisation to NF type organisations is rife and extremely problematic - and also connected to radicalisation to Islamic organisations - the polarisation of society strengthens the position of both sides:
The young person who is a British Muslim feels further disenfranchised because of the NF, the british youth feels he has to fight the encroaching ISIS threat and sees NF type groups as a viable way of doing this.

It is all connected, within the UK.

[Kardamyli]

If Muslims feel disenfranchised in Europe they need to have a long hard look at their culture and religion to discover why that is the case. Like it or not, Western Europe does not have an Islamic foundation and you can't expect to live here and not make some concessions to your lifestyle to fit in. You need to integrate to at least some extent into the culture of the country you live in. My experience is that Muslims tend not to want to mix with non Muslims, this needs to change.

[Jasonandyawegunorts]

My experience is that Muslims tend not to want to mix with non Muslims, this needs to change

And so do you, a lot.

[Wideopenspace]

kard - I need to put my hands up at this point and state that I am not actually a great supporter of the Muslim faith. I am deeply uncomfortable with parts of the doctrine. Although I'm not overly fond of religion in general - or of the atrocities carried out in the name of religion.

I don't want to talk myself into a position of defending something I don't believe.

[Kardamyli]

Jason, me personally not true. Any attempts at friendship I have made have been well and truly rebuffed. As an example, When my eldest was at primary school he was friends within school with a Muslim boy. His parents would not let the boy mix with white children out of school. I see that as a Muslim family deliberately putting barriers in the way of their child integrating into UK society.

[Want2bSupermum]

The government response has been very muted IMO in part I believe because of the high risk of further attacks before the end of Ramadan. They know what they are doing.

There has been a lot going on in the UK. As an American I was able to get super cheap flights to Birmingham over Memorial Day weekend because of terrorist threats made against the airline. The response was to restrict bookings to Americans only and those returning on prebooked flights. When I got on the plane it was half empty and I saw a friend of my brothers who was one of the marshals on the plane. I think I counted 5 marshals. When we landed at Birmingham DD and I were the only ones going through UK immigration. There was a quiet press release made after about the issue and I only found it because my brother told me to google it. I have complained to both the airline and my senator. Had I known about the threat I would have changed plans. I deserve the right to make an informed decision.

[Rockytoptennessee]

I'm not sure if this point has been made as I'm only on page 3, but several Tunisians were shot in the attack, many who were chasing the gun men down the street to try to stop him killing tourists. Local builders also threw bricks etc from on top of buildings to try to injure the terrorist.

We should be mourning the death of all involved, not just the English.

[mombie]

Ummmmm I am a Muslim and I mix with all sorts of people. I know plenty of Muslims who do too. Everyday Muslims who work and live everyday lives. There are pockets of radicals but they are being rooted out, by Muslims themselves.

There is plenty of change taking place in Muslim communities up and down the country, it goes under the radar and is rarely discussed or reported. A recent Case in point being Muslims 'liking' or sharing Facebook gay pride pictures. This has triggered a huge debate between Muslims. None of this is seen, and it gets to a point where you become so fed up of defending yourself, when everything you do is questioned or ridiculed, you start to think what is the point? Even moderate Muslims, who would once openly discuss and engage in talks end up disillusioned. This is what leads to disenfranchisement . This is when young minds become targeted by these radicals. It fuels the fire. I don't speak for all Muslims mind, but this is my experience within the Muslim community I live in.

[Kardamyli]

Mombie, I am pleased to hear radical Muslims are being rooted out by other Muslims. I wish there were more Muslims like you who mix with all sorts of people. In my experience there are many who do not wish to mix. Although not necessarily radical I think they see non Muslims as inferior. Perhaps this is a view also held by people of other religions, but I haven't come across it.

[mombie]

I am glad that you appreciate our efforts. There are people out there who have this outdated attitude towards non Muslims, to me it is a totally unislamic attitude to have. There are plenty of others who don't and who are making an effort to integrate because quite frankly that is what our parents and grandparents did for our benefit, and it would be an insult to them to behave otherwise. It is in everyone's interest to just get along and keep the debate open and honest.

We live in a horrible time of suspicion and mistrust but we can't get sucked into it. The resentment and bed feeling will consume everyone and everything. I wear a hijab, and am contemplating taking it off whilst I'm out and about , because I don't want to be caught up in nastiness especially when my kids are with me. That makes me so sad. Other women I know are limiting being out and about at all for fear of repercussions. It makes me so angry because that it makes me feel as though I am guilty of something I haven't done.

With it being Ramadan it is a time for reflection and self analysis. It is a time when Muslims wage jihad on themselves against their personal demons. This is beyond the comprehension of the simple minded, gun wielding gits who are always going to be looking for an excuse to do what they do.

[NewFlipFlops]

I'm sick of being called a 'non-Muslim' btw. This needs to stop. Imagine this usage applied to any other religion, or to atheism!

[Wideopenspace]

I cold get behind a movement that called everyone who has a religion a non-atheist!

[NewFlipFlops]

Ha ha maybe I could too - but you see the bias and the inference the non- prefix makes.

[Wideopenspace]

I think you get 'non Christian' a bit maybe? But I can't bring to mind an example. It is a bit silly defining anyone by a thing they are not...

I am:
non male
non blonde
non vegetarian
non fascist

etc