yes you can be overweight and in poverty

[Mumof4worriedfor]

Just saw this story on ITV twitter.com/itvnews/status/614128648585617408

Most of the comments are about her weight. Don't people understand the cheaper food is more unhealthy and you can very quickly get into poverty! Really annoyed by the response.

Exactly. Anything could be an argument then.

"My great-grandfather sold farts for gold, no one needs to be poor!"

Where would it end?

Based on whose criteria MistressMerryWeather?

AFAIK as long as someone stays within the talk guidelines and stays on the topic of discussion then whatever they offer is valid. We're not at work here, we're not in a court of law etc.

WW2 may not apply directly as a reply to the original post in question but such is the nature of the debates we have on here. The OP made a point related to poverty and obesity, other posters have explored and commented on similar but not directly related themes. We've often gone off on tangents so the debate rolls on. I don't see why someone's WW2 experience should be disregarded as irrelevant.

I have worked in many deprived areas with people who have become overweight to the point where they need help. Lack of occupation is one reason, lack of access to decent shops within walking distance is another. Fear is a really big factor, the areas can be areas with high antisocial behaviour and the fear of going out for a jog or a run or just around the park is too much for some. So jobless, frightened people with no decent shops do end up eating for comfort and before they really have realised are really struggling with their weight and chronic problems have set in.

It's not really an argument though is it? It's just story telling

Raveismyera Right then, so we all need to be qualified in what exactly before we can contribute to an open debate?

I don't take issue with others criticising another poster's point. But I do take issue with another poster declaring what is and isn't useful in an open debate. Hence I am not going to stand to be called 'ridiculous'. You can either counter my argument or not. Being called 'ridiculous' is rather amusing if not childish.

MistressMerryWeather "My great-grandfather sold farts for gold, no one needs to be poor!"

Where would it end?

It ends when you choose to let it go. Threads often die their own natural death but unless you're from HQ you have no right to police them or declare what is a worthy argument or otherwise.

'You can either counter my argument or not. Being called 'ridiculous' is rather amusing if not childish'

A person doesn't have one when she or he is just telling anecdotes. They are just that, stories. IMO it is ridiculous to conclude it is anything other than it is: a story.

'It ends when you choose to let it go.'

Pot.kettle.black.

Stories are good they make people view a debate from different angles.

To directly answer the OP though....

You can be overweight and in poverty but only in countries with a benefit system which allows it. In countries like Kenya, people in poverty aren't fat.

If people ate the 30's poverty diet they wouldn't be fat either. I have recently started eating the way my mum was brought up and I have lost a stone and saved about £50 per week.

And .................there it is!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well ive lost ten of them Cherries

An argument:

1. an exchange of diverging or opposite views, typically a heated or angry one.

1. a reason or set of reasons given in support of an idea, action or theory.

So poverty is a cause of obesity. Yes argument= fattening good is very cheap and easily available. No argument= those people choose to eat badly and not exercise and could eat as well as anyone else should they choose.

"My grandad ate rabbit stew in ww2 and wasn't obese": not an argument. Just an irrelevant snippet of information.

Bingo, Helena.

This threads turned a bit nasty now really.

People should be allowed to post anecdotes and points of view they they feel are relevant without people playing thread bingo.

It's fair enough to challenge someone for what they've posted, but no need to be dismissive really.

Why do anecdotes from distant decades ago trump the obesity some of us have experienced and beaten today

I don't understand why 'beige' food ie Iceland cheap frozen stuff is demonised all over MN yet on threads about poverty and obesity, everybody thinks it's a yummy treat for yourself and your kids.

I eat both kinds - healthy/ colourful and processed/beige, both have a place in a varied diet. But I'm not sure I could ever think of a painted on pizza or a reformed chicken shape as a treat.

Is the argument that these foods objectively taste better?

Sooooooo....lets say we agree -
(Ignoring the ones who really are in extreme poverty)
Let's concentrate on poor people like this lady - obese because they can't afford to eat healthily and can't afford electricity to cook and need fatty treats to cheer them up and anyway it is cheaper to eat junk. They spend £30 a month on leggings, new furniture, expensive photo framing ....because they are 'bad with money' and can't be expected to have second hand/old things or be frugal because we aren't in the 70s (or 30s or 40s) ... they should be able to have a better lifestyle than in those eras.
Right - ok - so a solution...
We give them more money? That would solve all their problems wouldn't it? They could afford to eat healthily, wouldn't need fatty treats to cheer up their depressing lives ...
Except...it seems they must have that already ...have more disposable income now than they did in the previous decades because they do have nicer things and can afford new clothes for their children ....
but are eating junk ...because it is all they can afford ...

So what is the solution?

Anecdotes from everybody are relevant. That's what MN is for isn't it. You can't ban anecdotes and people who try to are usually more than happy for the anecdotes supporting their own viewpoint to stand. It's just a dismissing technique.

Pot.kettle.black
expatinscotland
I can't see how my argument is pot-kettle-black but if that's how you choose to see it, it is your prerogative. My point is that an experience and an argument are of equal merit on this board. We can disagree of course but no-one is arbiter of what counts as a reasonable argument. Your PA response to Cherriesandapples's along with Helena is case in point of this.

Raveismyera
Just an irrelevant snippet of information.

Irrelevant to who? You or absolutely everyone else on the thread as of course they'd see it as irrelevant as you do.

sugar is a cheap energy source which causes insulin to he produced and therefore glucose to be stored as adipose tissue.

protein and pure fats are comparatively more expensive and do not cause the body to release insulin. thus preventing the storage of calories as excess adipose tissue.

I meant the 'let it go' statement that I quoted right above the pot kettle black .

but you still going on about 'arguments'.

Okay.

unlucky it is a vicious circle and beating it takes a hell of a lot of mental strength. Having said that i found it helped to fill my mind with other things (you would not believe the office politics that goes on in a sex chatline office) I was in that job for 2 and a half years. The most well paid job ive ever had THAT and buying a diet mag one day and thinking "I wonder how much i could lose if i did this and how much would come off each week led me to treat it like an experiment. But you still need the mental strength to carry on when you hit that plateau As the weight came off i got gallstones (caused by losing the weight too fast) as told by two doctors and my surgeon but i STILL carried on I remember screaming in pain and being taken to hospital by ambulance , doctors coming to my home to give me morphine injections. Crawling on the floor in pain at work. Gallbladder was removed the following year.

Fighting obesity is HELL You HAVE to be mentally and emotionally ready to do it I would never criticise anyone else cos its not my fucking business!!!

if poor people weren't forced by economics to consume food made palatable by added glucosre/fructose and instead subsisted on proteins, fats and green veg/berries then they wouldn't be fat.

It costs to eat in a way that is healthful and efficient in biological terms

poor people can't afford to do it.

YY lemonade Totally agree. slimming world advocate we eat those bloody mullerlight yoghurts but they are full of sugar so i dont. A lot of the so called low syn stuff is full of sugar.

So ive had to modify and tweak SW a bit this time.

But yes pre 2002 and between 2007 and 2010 i couldnt afford to.

No expatinscotland. I am going on about experiences and arguments being of equal merit.

I meant the 'let it go' statement that I quoted right above the pot kettle black

If you insist on taking my words out context, please quote the sentence in it's entirety and say which part you disagree with. I said:

"It ends when you choose to let it go. Threads often die their own natural death but unless you're from HQ you have no right to police them or declare what is a worthy argument or otherwise."

This was in response to MistressMerryWeather's question:
Where would it end?

I said it would end when someone decides to 'let it go', in other words, leave the thread, hide the thread, change their point of view based on knowledge learnt from other posters offerings or opinions.
In short, our activity with any thread ends when we as individuals decide to just let it go. Maybe a poster jumps to another thread or maybe a poster decides they don't care anymore but the truth is a poster has the final say over their participation in any thread. If that is your reason for the 'pot.kettle.black' statement then I must admit that I don't follow your logic.

if poor people weren't forced by economics to consume food made palatable by added glucosre/fructose and instead subsisted on proteins, fats and green veg/berries then they wouldn't be fat.

You talk about poor people like they're all the same though.

They're all individual people, with different appetites/lives/priorities/energy levels.

It's just not as simple as 'poor quality food makes poor people fat'.

There are many other factors, otherwise there would be no slim poor people in the UK at all.

exactly.

I gave up sugar and a typical day is eggs and bacon
chicken caeser salad
chicken breast with green veg sautéed in butter
blueberries and double cream
85% green and blacks
coffee and cream and mineral water.

yep I'm slim. It costs a fortune

worra you don't usually encounter a slim poor person who isn't actually consuming less calories than their BMR necessitates who is over the age of forty who isn't overweight.

youth is a protective factor bit years of cheap carbs which convert to sugar once ingested fucks the life out of the metabolism in middle age

its a time bomb.