yes you can be overweight and in poverty

[Mumof4worriedfor]

Just saw this story on ITV twitter.com/itvnews/status/614128648585617408

Most of the comments are about her weight. Don't people understand the cheaper food is more unhealthy and you can very quickly get into poverty! Really annoyed by the response.

[HelenaDove]

YY lemonade Slimming world involves a lot of friut and veg. And eggs.



Something needs to be done to give ppl on lower incomes more choice. I dont mean patronize them like Jamie Oliver does. But to give ppl choices.


Money buys choices and there needs to be another way. And i have no idea what that could be.

[lemonade30]

protein vouchers.

subsidised meat and dairy produce.

and end to sugar used as a cheap and admittedly palatable bulking agent for nutritionally devoid, tasty shite.

[HelenaDove]

Protein vouchers is a great idea.


Is high fructose corn syrup used in foods in this country still


I know more of it started to be used from the mid 1970s onwards.

[WorraLiberty]

Lemonade you said if poor people weren't forced by economics to consume food made palatable by added glucosre/fructose and instead subsisted on proteins, fats and green veg/berries then they wouldn't be fat.

How many times have you read/heard people (regardless of income) saying "I'm overweight because..."

I was brought up to eat everything on my plate

I've had a baby

I don't have time to exercise

I comfort eat

I boredom eat

I simply eat too much

I don't walk much as I tend to drive everywhere

So how would being subsisted on proteins, fats and green veg/berries help these people, if they happened to be poor?

Like I said, it's just not as simple as that. Yes it might help, but not if that person overeats the subsisted proteins, fats and green veg/berries and takes very little exercise.

Being poor, is not a reason alone for the obesity epidemic. There are tons of other factors.

[lemonade30]

its endemic and used in shed loads of cheap food.

New tissue can't proliferate in the absence of protein and yet we have swathes of the present generation who were deprived of this vital nutritional component in utero

[lemonade30]

worra the point is its difficult to overeat on natural produce.

The body utilises ketones rather than glucose which modifies the appetite so that exercise doesn't have to be a necessary component of weight loss.

I'm sedentary and I've had four children. I don't exercise but I can afford not to eat crap.

[irretating]

^Except...it seems they must have that already ...have more disposable income now than they did in the previous decades because they do have nicer things and can afford new clothes for their children ....
but are eating junk ...because it is all they can afford ...^

It's debt, it really is.

[WorraLiberty]

worra the point is its difficult to overeat on natural produce

As much as I think we've become a nation of over eaters, I agree.

But you can't force poor people to eat only natural produce, so even if it's subsidised, what can you do about people eating such large meals in one sitting and snacking (or grazing as some people call it) in between?

Add to that the stationary lives many people live due to driving everywhere, having 100s of TV channels to watch/the internet/games consoles/not even having to leave the house to get a takeaway etc, and it's not hard to see why giving people easier/more affordable access to natural produce isn't automatically going to make a difference.

Self discipline will still very much have to play its part.

[lemonade30]

and nutritional education worra.

which is sadly lacking. we're still advised to base our diet on carbohydrates which necessarily bulk up glycogen stores and lead to storage of body fat.

we're poorly educated and tempted by cheap, tasty, addictive sugar laden crap.

its a travesty. obesity causes poor health outcomes and we're conditioned to indulge in obesity causing behaviours.

why?

[HelenaDove]

We are not talking about forcing everyone We are talking about giving ppl on a lower income the CHOICE.

[HelenaDove]

lemonade why do think the NHS wont admit they got it wrong. They advocate a low fat diet. I have proteins and fats in my diet and i have lost weight.

[HelenaDove]

Why have you mentioned baby weight Worra. That has nothing to do with it. Its normal after having a child.

[lemonade30]

if people adhered to a high fat/protein, low carb diet then health outcomes would rise exponentially and pharmaceutical companies would go bust, with massive implications for the economy.

its easier to demonise the poor and blame them for making poor choices when they're the only choices they've ever been in possession of owing to the blatant duplicity of our government(s)

[unlucky83]

helen I'm overweight (not obese) - I had real issues with my weight for many years (starving myself, making myself sick, crazy diets etc) so I know about losing weight too....but now I am chilled - just make sure I don't go above a certain weight. I tell my children it is better not to get fat in the first place, it is incredibly easy to put on weight - a lot harder to lose it.

(I have to say when I was really skint (28 years ago) I didn't put on weight -actually lost it cos I couldn't afford to eat much at all, couldn't afford the electricity but did buy some crap (remember debating if I could manage without buying any more tampons that month - with some chocolate mousses in my basket -but they would be my treat for the month!) and I had to walk to work for a month or two cos I didn't have the money for the fare ...but then I only had me to look after - and I don't think we had the same amount of junk thrust at us in eg the supermarkets... which I think is one thing that has a large role in the general rise in obesity.)

Anyway I've had this argument before ...how to truly help people in poverty and I don't think just throwing money at them is the solution. I'm not going to pretend I do know what the solution is....but it is more complex than just hard cash.
And I do wonder why this particular person was chosen to be representative of childhood poverty. I am sure there are people - children - much more worse off -and they would have been a better illustration.

I know a lot of 'the nice' things are largely due to debt ...but that suggests that 'we' are no longer ashamed of being in debt as I know that previous generations were - I think that is a bad thing - longer term makes your situation worse. I know we are also encouraged to be consumers - the economy depends on it. And to compare our lives to footballers and celebrities etc, and 'grand design, etc type' programs on the tv. Also the widening gap between the rich and poor.
But the fact remains that the majority of our poor now are wealthy compared to the poor of the past...but (it seems) not happier ...or healthier...

[TheHumblePotato]

Hang on a second there HelenaDove Are you referring to Worra's comment: I've had a baby

As in the comment she made in her post reeling off the litany of excuses a person could give for being overweight?

If so you are misrepresenting that comment. No-one has disputed that carrying a bit of extra weight after giving birth isn't normal.

Under your logic then 'comfort eating' - another point Worra pointed out should be flagged up as 'nothing to do with it' as comfort eaters are suffering from an eating disorder. Rather odd leap of logic you've assumed Helena.

[WorraLiberty]

'Why' is such a loaded question and I really don't know the answer.

But I do truly believe that over eating (both crap and healthy foods) and lack of any meaningful amount of exercise, is as much a cause of obesity as poverty is.

The borough I live in is not only one of the most deprived in London but it's in the bottom 7% of the most deprived in the country.

Poverty, adult and child obesity is rife here and yet I can still look around me and definitely equate obesity to the sheer volume of food that many overweight people consume, compared to those who aren't overweight.

That's not to say for a second that the slimmer people are any healthier, but in general they do eat less and exercise much more.

Last year I went to a borough football tournament, with 120 boys and girls who regularly played football for their schools.

Out of 120 kids, I can honestly tell you that just one child could be described as 'a bit overweight'. All the others were slim (or 'skinny' as some people now see it).

That's 119 slim children from one of the country's poorest boroughs, who regularly train and exercise - yet many of them will have poor diets (I've been witness to some of them).

Looking at the parents/carers/grandparents was a totally different picture. Many of them were overweight and obese (as were a few teachers).

So being too poor to afford quality food isn't good for your general health, but it really doesn't mean it's inevitable that you will get fat.

And I think it's important that people know that.

[WorraLiberty]

Why have you mentioned baby weight Worra. That has nothing to do with it. Its normal after having a child.

No it isn't necessarily and I think it's very important that people know that too.

Often I read people saying "I gained 3 or 4 stone of baby weight" without thinking to elaborate (their choice entirely).

But I wonder if it leads first time Mums/lurkers to think that gaining vast amounts of weight is inevitable just because they're pregnant.

Women are individuals, pregnancies are all individual and gaining significant amounts of weight, is not necessarily a 'given' particularly if the Mother eats healthily/exercises/wasn't overweight to begin with.

Yes it happens, of course it does but it's important to point out that it doesn't happen to everyone.

[WorraLiberty]

And thanks TheHumblePotato for seeing my point.

'I've had a baby (whilst I wouldn't call it an excuse) is often a reason given (sometimes a year or two after birth) that's kind of mentioned as though it's inevitable, rather than a reason for that particular person's weight gain if that makes sense?

[TheHumblePotato]

WorraLiberty We meet again!

[DoughDoe]

Processed food is shit. And billion dollars are spent marketing it to people.

But it's not a foregone conclusion. Some of the most deprived areas of the country have FANTASTIC cheap, fresh produce. BUT, those areas are almost invariably made up of immigrant populations.

Corporations poison Western populations with shitty processed food. That's the real problem.

It's not a poverty problem as such.

[Raveismyera]

It's rare for someone in the UK to be protein deficient - that's by proven RDAs, not the latest fad diet. Most people regardless of weight and income eat well over.

I put on 3 stone baby weight- it's within the normal range. It depends on your size to begin with, women are were slim often put on a lot more. Even after the 3 stone weight gain I wasn't in the obese BMI range (not that it's relevant to pregnant women, but still)

[Cherriesandapples]

It's very difficult to have any sort of proper debate on Mumsnet recently.
it used to be a place where people could have a discussion and maybe change their viewpoint but now it seems to be full of weird bullies who are too lazy to articulate thoughts and turn to dismissive bullying to "win".

[Cherriesandapples]

But I can people are having s sensible debate now so great.

The people that I see have become overweight through lack of excercise and because of we have a culture in this country of eating too much.
When I really didn't have any money was 2 stone lighter than I am now. Things have changed quite a lot in the last 25 years, we do need as a society to change attitude and thinking towards food.
If you eat meat and veg prepared simply, you can eat a lot calorie wise and not get hungry. A lot of food in this country is high in calories but doesn't fill a person up.

[whiteiris]

As well as costing more, preparing healthy food also requires a lot more subtle abilities, such as being able to seek out recipes, learn new things, try new things, experiment, do research, ask questions, go to new shops, chat to others for advice, take a risk, get the kids on board etc. I imagine that these things are very difficult or impossible if you are poor, or depressed, or disabled, or have low self-esteem etc.

[fiorentina]

I think the point here is that cheap food is generally high in fat but if you really don't want to put on weight you can exercise to counteract that. Exercise is free has proven health benefits to help deal with depression etc. however it is a viscious circle of having to get into that mindset of walking more, maybe even going for a run. This is possible in even the most urban of areas.