£12bn Welfare Cuts - Speculation and Information

[olgaga]

I've been reading the recent threads about this on here with interest. I came across this article by Robert Joyce of the Institute for Fiscal Studies.

Do have a read. We won't know the full extent of what is planned until 8 July when we hear the new Budget, but we do know that Tax Credits and Housing Benefit are in the firing line, along with an expected reduction in the Universal Credit Cap of £26,000 to £23,000.

I haven't posted this to provoke an argument, more to try to provide some authoritative information for those seeking possible answers, and to express my sadness at what I fear will be the impact.

Here are some of the highlights of the article, in my words:

Yes there will be an extension of free childcare, to enable you to work longer hours in your min wage job to make up for SOME of the shortfall caused by the withdrawal or abolition of WTC, whuch currently costs £30bn.

That's if you can find a childcare provider, and succeed in obtaining additional working hours.

No doubt they will also raise the tax threshold - but that will benefit higher earners just as much as the lowest paid.

Child benefit may be cut more quickly by lowering the cash terms threshold, so the number of families who reach the threshold will increase more quickly.

Or they might cut the amount for the first child, or for the number of subsequent children.

Or it may be abolished altogether and be included as an element of means tested CTC.

Cuts to housing benefit seem inevitable, as this makes up £26bn of the welfare budget - and not just for 18-21yo. This may be achieved by cuts to the LHA, or introducing a percentage co-payment (say 10-20% of rent) for tenants in both social and private rented housing. Worth bearing in mind if that might necessitate a move to a cheaper area, and possible loss of employment.

Disability and incapacity benefits, carer's and attendance allowances, at £37bn, are also likely to be affected. Whether by taxing, means testing, or simple abolition.

I think the Tories' position on welfare in the run up to the 2010 election was misleading. Certainly here, on thread after thread in the run up to 2010, people were declaring that the problem of the welfare bill needed to be tackled, but believed the Tories would only tackle so-called "career claimants".

It seems to me that all that "hardworking families" "strivers v skivers" stuff was designed to divide and rule. I don't blame people for believing it, but the Tories have always been the Party of low taxation, small state and individual responsibility - and that's not about to change.

Anyway, that's just my view. I'm sure there are still plenty of people who think lower taxation and a smaller welfare state will be beneficial to the economy.

But it's clear that a lot of people, and many, many children, will suffer when these benefit lifelines are taken away.

Lotus I ask again - how are families better off?

The elderly and the poor are picked up more by social care though. If they can't afford it then the help is there and will continue to be there.

Just because there is a drive toward self sufficiency doesn't mean everyone is going to be abandoned. You may have to pay for things if your income or savings are too high but the onus is on councils now to support you to make choices and guide you to the right support.

If I fell over and broke my arm I'd be asking my husband, friends and family to rally round to help me. I would dream of ringing social services for a carer. Yet for a lot of people that's the very first thing they do even when they have a good network around them. If people utilised that network more then the overstretched services could help those people who really need it and who don't have any support.

It's about bringing communities and families back together to work together.

The food bank issue the left keep bringing up. They're brilliant examples of communities working together to support each other. What is so wrong with that? Sense of Community seemed to disappear at some point in my life time. I hope I see it return within my lifetime too.

The elderly and the poor are picked up more by social care though. If they can't afford it then the help is there and will continue to be there.

Did you read the news today?

The food bank issue the left keep bringing up. They're brilliant examples of communities working together to support each other. What is so wrong with that? Sense of Community seemed to disappear at some point in my life time. I hope I see it return within my lifetime too.

It's fuck all to do with communities working together. You need a referral to access most food banks - you can't just turn up. Why the hell should we need food banks in this country?

We've always needed them. But it's only been in recent years they've actually materialised.

Many years ago it used to be the church who doled out charity by way of food in fact it was that way for many centuries. It's only really been the 20th century where we became a bunch of selfish bastards really.

I live 200 miles from my unsupportive family. Have you not thought outside the box?not everyone has the life you have or the same circumstances
I have not been out with my partner for years as we need medically trained nursing staff to look after our daughter. OR US. It's US basically
That's why I am so ANGRY with David Cameron. It's an absolute disgrace and the way some of you have bought into these cuts against the most vulnerable are a disgrace as well. If you don't want cuts against the vulnerable YOU MUST MAKE YOUR VOICE HEARD

Massive I look after three people with disabilities. I'm 56. I lift, I wash, I dress, I feed, I transport. I'm 56. We are not being picked up by social care, social care is being cut to the bone. The network of people falls away pretty damned quick when they realise that they'll be being asked to help for years on end without renumeration. FFS, as Owllady and 2old have said, we get bugger all or nothing, and yet we have had to give up good jobs and work an 18 hour day, every day of the year, without respite in some cases. Good for you for not ringing for a carer if you break your arm. I don't when my dd breaks her arm, leg, fingers, thumb, toes, ribs etc. That's on top of the other difficulties she already has, but no, the government knows I will keep plodding on for fuck all. Imagine what would happen and how much it would cost the government if I decided to stop. Thousands per week. Oh, and it isn't 65 quid per disabled person, it's 65 quid for all three, four when ds is at home.

Not wishing to sound patronising but have you explicitly spelt out to your social worker (I assume with that many people you care for you have one?) that you are struggling? Sometimes professionals need to have their noses rubbed into a problem before they'll help

I was a history lecturer, Massive. Why would I have a social worker? Not all people with disabilities get a social worker. We're not all entitled to one. This is a reality for most. We don't get help. I'm an articulate woman, dh was a philosophy lecturer, he too is reasonably articulate. It still took us four years to get grab rails in the house. It's about money. Equally, none of my children have ever had an EHCP, despite their various conditions, why? Because they are articulate, bright and engaged. Unless I request that they start failing and 'act up' the likelihood of a social worker is minimal.

I take it then Massive that you dont expect families to move to look for work then. Because they cant care for elderly relatives if they are miles away.

And with soooooooo many employees right NO employer would use caring responsibilities as an excuse to get rid of an employee

Massivetonsils, I've worked in and around social care for a long time and your narrative of people turning to services first before they try to be self sufficient is alien to me. In the vast majority of cases, by the time somebody is referred it's because they've exhausted all other alternatives and they and their families are at breaking point. I wish some of the clients I've seen during my career had stopped trying to be self-sufficient a bit earlier - it would have been the best option all round. Your example is also insulting - a broken arm is an 6-week inconvenience which sees you just needing a helping hand here and there (excuse the pun). A learning disability or dementia are permanent and long-term and can require constant attendance.

You might be surprised. Can I suggest ringing your local social services and asking for support if you need it? They don't come looking for you, you have to go and ask them.

You shouldn't be doing all that lifting around (I say that as someone who occasionally needs lifting!) you should at least have the right equipment to help you and support to access respite. Ring them and ask.

'I take it then Massive that you dont expect families to move to look for work then. Because they cant care for elderly relatives if they are miles away.'

And how are you supposed to work when you are caring for a relative with say, dementia? Most families do not have a rota of people who can provide that sort of 24-hour care, as dementia patients need overnight care once their condition progresses.

Massive, as I said, I'm an articulate woman. Don't you think I've already been there? We don't get help. We're not entitled to it. It no longer exists for the likes of us. No, I shouldn't be lifting an eleven stone woman a dozen times a day, nor the ten stone woman, nor the twelve stone man. But I do, because if I don't, who will. Social services will not provide the equipment anymore. It costs. In the area in which I live, nothing other than a standard size wheelchair is provided, so if your child is too big/small then you're up the creek. We had to buy dds. it was the only way we could get what was appropriate for her needs. This is the way of the world now. It may be better in your area, but trust me, it won't be for long.

Perhaps having a read of the new care act may be worth while for you? Quote that at your council and they'll have nowhere to hide

Where in the UK are you?

Massive I am really confused by your posts. You don't come across as goady, but surely you can't be that naive?

I'm not naive. Idealist, maybe, but not naive and certainly not a guardian reading lefty but I think you may have guessed that one!

Look, I am well aware of the shit life can throw at you. I am disabled. I am a parent. I have been a single parent. I have elderly relatives who are very poorly. I have close family who work in the public sector. I read news, I watch news, I ask questions. I educate myself.

I also believe the best person to help me is me. I am the expert on me. I do feel a lot of people like being passive about their needs and then complain when the service isn't right for them. It's the old school way of doctoring isn't it. You go in, sit down, Dr I've got a pain here, yes Dr I'll so what you tell me and ask no questions. Until next time then, bye! It doesn't work. For person centred approaches to work the person needs to be their own expert.

Massive you sound incredibly naive about access to social care.

My son is severely disabled. He will need 2:1 care for the rest of his life. He does now get a decent package of support - but we went through hell to get it. They didn't give it because they wanted to support us, they gave it because a) if they didn't he was going to start costing them half a million a year and b) because I managed to make it clear that they would be held accountable for damage arising from their failure to act (we also had every professional working with my son onside -including his lovely SW, and I drafted in MP's and councillors). I had to take time off work (I run my own business from home) just to deal with the correspondence to get the support he needed.

My council have to save £65 million by 2017, while their central grant has been cut by more than half. Of course the council don't hand out social care unless they have to.

If you're disabled and reliant on social care you are in the group most hit by the cuts. They really have gone for the most vulnerable. Personally I hope they start attacking the services everyone uses so that the turkeys who voted this bunch in get some understanding of what they have done.

I have never been passive about Ds1s needs (and quite frankly if you suggested to the higher management of the council I was passive you'd probably see them shudder from across the room).

I hope they cut child benefit for those above a certain salary, maternity pay and the state pension for those with a decent private pension and maybe reduce WTC a bit. Not because I think those things aren't worthwhile and needed by many but because, seeing as they have stated that they are going to make cuts I think those would be less harmful than attacking the poor and disabled by cutting HB and disability benefits.

I don't understand why people get so worked about people on benefits having too much money - don't you trust this government, of all governments, to make sure that nobody gets too much for nothing!!

I know one person - ONE - who (I suspect) gets more in benefits than I will ever earn. Why? - because she is a single parent to 8 children. 2 of those children have SN severe enough to be in a special school, another 1 has a life threatening, chronic illness and he and another two have mild SN. Her children are all under 12 years old. So, sure, she probably gets a lot of money. Do I want her life? Hell, no! She needs and deserves every bit of help she can get, her lot is still a bloody tough one.

By the time they acted there was a real risk of serious injury - even death, in the following week. It went right to the wire.

I should also add that many people are not capable of holding the council to account in the way I did - for various reasons - (and I say that as a fact - not as a judgment). It was not simply a case of pointing out the situation to them. They knew the situation, they still wouldn't give the social care needed.

And what upsets me a great deal is there is very little I can do to protect those other families. I have tried to arrange meetings between the 3 local MP's and families to try and deal with one area that keeps going wrong for everyone, but they're all tory MP's and don't seem very interested

It is a procedure, time scale period following nightmare tackling your local authority. It's emotionally and physically taxing on all of you to pursue social care and even get the minimum generated. Then to add insult to injury you get given a social worker who you doubt even went to school

When we were on our knees the only person who seemed remotely concerned was my own GP. he apparently turned up at SS offices on our behalf and I got a visit from a senior SW in the afternoon. It had taken years to get to that point. That was 18 months ago, so God knows how bad it is now.

Oh and another thing, the mumsnet campaign where David Cameron turned up a mumsnetters house promising not to limit incontinence products for her severely disabled daughter if the conservatives got into power? It didn't happen. The service is on its knees. I've waited over a year for a prescription change which when delivered contained the old prescription, so never mind limiting them to so many a day. We get none! There is little point in being idealistic

Ahh, incontinence supplies. I got given three sheets when dd was 12. Nothing since, despite asking. We sort ourselves out.