to be utterly disgusted at people's comments re. welfare cuts

[HappyGoLuckyGirl]

Yes, I'm aware that our welfare system needs reforming. I do not profess to know how this should be done.

I've just read a few articles on the proposed cuts that primarily focused on reducing tax credits. The vitrol is appalling. I can't believe this is the country I live in.

I am a single mother working 40 hours a week also mid way through a 5 year part time degree. I earn slightly over minimum wage. Things are tight enough as it is, with the tax credits I get (80% of which goes on my weekly childcare bill) and now they are planning to reduce them.

I am trying to better myself so I don't always have to rely on benefits to get me through the month and yet I'm being punished! Why are working people being targeted? How is that fair in the slightest? If I wasn't so furious I would cry.

And as for people saying that employers should raise workers wages, I can say with 100% surety that if I approached my employer and asked for a living wage (increase of £8k+) I would be flat out refused and or fired. And I work in a skilled job! What hope do people who work for a large multi-national company have?

I am very this morning.

Of course, I don't want to support people who can't be bothered, of course I think the system could be better, and I really hope the conservatives do just that.

But, I also realise that not everyone is special. It's a fact that most of us cluster around the average. Half of us are below average, by definition. Not everyone is a "go getter." Not everyone has bags of energy, wit and talent. And, frankly, there is no sin in that. Half the population does not deserve to be punished and treated as losers because they can't be their own hero.

I actually think that decent people who are good and kind and willing to work need some sort of clear cut path for getting on in life. Just because someone is not going to "set the world on fire," doesn't mean that he or she doesn't deserve a measure of dignity and security in their lives. It sometimes feels like a large portion of our population has been rendered useless because all the useful things they used to do to make a contribution have been outsourced and now we just want to shut them away, forget about them, and hope they cost us as little as possible. And then, to add insult to injury, we'll tell them it's all their own fault. They are worthless and deserve it.

These Cuts are truely depressing.

Anyone who agrees with them clearly isn't going to be affected by them. It's that simple.

And the lack of empathy from those people depresses me more still, you simply have no fucking idea whatsoever.

but people like me did well because there was a state sector supporting families, education, and health, as well as those who were less lucky in life

Agree totally Notabeararaccoon and job sectors have changed alot and continue to do so.

People forget about the previous job security and pensions that were afforded to earlier generations.

conniedescending - do you not realise some people have already bust a gut and are already doing their best? And that some people are disabled and unable to work, or work as carers?

Also, the C4 Dispatches last night made the point - a cheese company in Yorkshire was paying above average wages but struggled to get staff because the local area was too expensive to live in. "Just move" is not an option, especially if you have any kind of illness and your support network is there.

OldFarticus I think you're very lucky if you have been reimbursed for the cost of every interview you have ever attended. I have never able to claim the costs of attending an interview, and I've never known anyone else to be able to either. Also have never heard of an employer allowing a potential employee to do am interview by Skype or phone.

Of course it would be easy if those options were available but for most jobs they simply aren't.

nottobear if only there were more like you instead of the I'm alright jack fuck you brigade.

I' not going to troubleshoot Mrs dvs personal circs as I don't know the ins and outs. I said earlier I gave every sympathy for people who are unable to workdue to disability.

This is a thread about tc cuts not cuts to dla etc...

Most people claiming tc have no barriers to work

I often wonder if Xenia is really Katie Hopkins and if she actually bases herself on the lawyer. I have read interviews with 'her' (lawyer) in the press and it seems tamed down rather than the calling SAHMs prostetutes etc. Much more like KH!

Somebody earlier in the thread said that some Tory voters think their lives will be better if others are living in misery and I think there is a point in that. Many Tory voters seem almost gleeful about benefit cuts and poor starving children.

Before tax credits, family credit was nowhere near as generous and no, wages were not higher whatsoever. The tax credits did redistribute wealth to the bottom and middle. It's not perfect and there is a point when it seems everyone gets the same and some are not working whilst others are full time etc BUT surely the lesser of two evils of no children are starving!

Many Tories are individualists that want to get ahead and do better than others and not for everyone to be equal. They hate Welfare yet fail to realize they will lose the NHS.

Valuing people soley on their monetary contribution is a slippery slope. Soon people become seen as a burden.

Hard-line Tories won't have sympathy for the working poor. They will just expect you to toil harder and longer. Tories are against the principle of the minimum wage and would far rather the market decide wages.

Most people claiming tc have no barriers to work

Whatever you say

I claim child tax credits. I have many barriers to work.

Unless employers become much more receptive to offering hours around school times of course they have barriers to work.

or employers actully offering a living wage ? we might be paid far more these days but that money goes far less in my parents life time a avegre person only paid roughly 10-15% of their totally wage on housing costs (be that renting or morgate payments/ loan repayments or what ever they were called at the time) and now days the averge person wage costs 80-90+% of their take home pay and this people is the underlaying problem with the cost of living....

This thread is the first I've ever read that has actually brought me to the brink of tears of despair. Some of you just don't have a fucking clue. I spent all yesterday morning at a coroner's court because one of my patients killed herself before Christmas. She was 22 and had chronic schizophrenia- she had severe negative symptoms which meant that she struggled with motivation and self care. This is not laziness, it is a recognised part of the illness. She found it hard to go out because she used to talk under her breath and people used to stare at her.
She had a work capability assessment in November which she didn't attend because she didn't open the letter. She didn't open the letter because she believes letters are contaminated. By the time I found out she missed the appointment, her benefits had been stopped. She couldn't apply for a crisis loan because they don't exist. She couldn't ask friends or family because she doesn't have any. I gave her £20 before I went on leave and a food bank voucher.
I called her when I came back to work in the new year and didn't get any answer. The next day I got a phone call from the Police saying that they'd found her hanging in a park. When they broke into her flat, they found that she'd had no gas or electricity for 3 days - in the middle of winter.
I can just imagine her sitting in the dark with no heating listening to voices telling her how shit she is.
Maybe getting her benefits stopped had nothing to do with her taking her life, I'll never know now.
I think it was Rodney Bickerstaffe who asked why it was under Thatcher, that the way to make the rich work harder was to give them more money and the way to make the poor work harder was to give them less money.

It's fascinating isn't it? Just about everyone of all political parties who wants to reform the welfare state thinks a bit of carrot and stick in combination work best so my statement that someone found very hard to understand is simply the current thinking of most political parties. You make work pay and you make working short hours a bit less pleasant - the carrot and stick. It is likely to work very well.

Those facing losing £25 a week or whatever it is going to be could start plajning now how they can earn an extra £25 a week.

As for someone saying my teenager should not use the London underground free bus pass I doubt he uses it very much as he is usually drive around, cycles and in a few months will start driving lessons but I have always consistently said above I have nothing against people who claim what they are entitled to. It is the system which needs to change not the people. I think the less we all pay to the state the better as a big state is a moral wrong. So i do not share the position of those on the thread either who want to pay more tax or who think those who are entitled to a benefit should not claim it. I just want to change the system to make full time work pay and part time work not be topped up by full time working mothers' taxes!

I would love to increase my hours, We'd be better off but there isn't any going so I can't.

Oh I suppose I could look for a job with more hours but here's the thing. They don't just appear as if by magic. They have to be looked for and sometimes for months going on years. In the meantime I'll have to stay put. I don't have the qualifications that would enable to apply for a well paid job either so that limits me.

I could take on a second job but again that would have to be looked for taking who knows how long and it would have to fit around my main job and then I would need childcare.

I also need to find time to sleep, and actually see my kids once in a while between these jobs because I'm not a robot I'm a human being.

These are my 'barriers' as you call them.

Andy that's heartbreaking.

a big state is a moral wrong.

This is fascinating. Can you expand?

Noooo - the way it works is you do more hours and pay someone else to cover the hours they are not in school -

2 lots of tax, 2 lots of paperwork, more people employed in the tax office, the pensions office, the checking of childminders office, etc etc etc...

we create more red tape jobs to get more people into work,

and the original worker and childminder work more hours and make more money so they don't need to be paid TC.

(The Osborne book of TC for dummies)

I don't think the problem is the "Tories" - those dastardly comic book villians! Twirling their waxed moustaches and leaving widows and orphans to starve!

I think it's more complicated than that. I think we are living in unprecedented times of change and social upheaval. Things are moving so quickly that no one has answers to the problem.

Labour wants to redistribute our way out of the problem. But that only works in the short run. In the long run, anything more than modest, marginal redistribution causes self defeating distortions to the economy and society.

The conservatives, meanwhile want to tackle the problem at the source. The right impulse. But, unfortunately, it's not clear that they understand the problem or actually gave any workable comprehensive solutions.

A debate about who's naughty and who's nice is pointless. We are all a bit of both. Capitalism has never worked well without some regulation. We need to figure out what that should look like in the 21st century.

Oh yeah and living on a low wage makes it virtually impossible to put cash away for a rainy day. Inevitably something occurs to take it. A unexpected bill, household appliance conks out and needs replacing, kids needs new clothes etc. I could go on.

Can someone explain to my how cutting tax credits is going to improve peoples positions. There are x number of jobs out there, x number of hours that need to be worked if you suddenly get an influx of people looking to work that limited number of hours what exactly do people think will happen to wages. Someone suggested up thread that wages would increase because people couldn't afford to take the jobs but the reverse is true wages would fall because people couldn't afford not to take any job going at any wage possible of course the upshot of this is that businesses will be able to increase their profits and guess who will benefit from that.

I don't object tax credits being cut for better off families. Anyone know what the income limit is for claiming those working tax credits, I think there must be a fairer system for everyone.

I think I agree with you WhattodowithMum

I am a single mum and am terrified. Is it really my fault I can only get low paid job? what do they expect me to do? How dare they go after the poorest people in the country, 70% of people who claims tax credits WORK.

If they cut housing benefit or my tax credits I will be brought into poverty. I already pay a 75 pound top up on my rent, I cannot afford anymore. Are they really doing cut tax/housing credits without forcing employers to pay us more? will they really do that?

Because the rich are making their own money and those on benefits are being given other people's (the tax payer)...