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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To have told XH no?

63 replies

PeggyTheClothesHorse · 22/06/2015 10:15

I'm a little bit torn over this and feeling crap after the inevitable argument so thought I could do with some other views on the situation.

My XH has asked if he can take our two DC on holiday during term time along with the rest of his family. Apparently his father is paying as he is quite ill and it will be his last holiday abroad.

Our DC are 7 and 4, the youngest will have only started school 6 weeks before he intends to take them. I have said no to his request but told him I have no problem with him taking them at half term. He has said this is not possible because the cost of the holiday doubles during the holidays.

If I'm brutally honest, im a bit sad that I won't be there for their first holiday abroad but have put my feelings to one side and said its ok if he takes them during school holidays. I have always had an issue with taking them out of school, even when we were together so this is not a new stance from me. Also, whilst it apparently seems noble to want to do this as a 'last request' for his DF, it rather ignores the fact that XH couldn't stand his father and didn't speak to him for several years after his dad fleeced him out of the family business. They didn't even make up when his DF was diagnosed with cancer so I'm a bit Hmm at the sudden change of heart. There are lots of side issues surrounding what I deem to be XH's unreasonable behaviour surrounding the care of our DC but there's too many to list and I'm not sure if they're relevant to the issue.

XH is really angry with me for saying no and is now forbidding me from ever taking them on holiday because he'll miss out on his weekday access. Neither child has a passport and I doubt he will authorise me to get them one now so I will never be able to take them abroad. I think his attitude on this is proof that he doesn't care about our DC doing something nice, he only wants it to happen if it's some grand gesture on his part.

So AIBU by saying no to this or should I let him?

OP posts:
formidable · 22/06/2015 10:52

You won't need a letter from him or court permission.

A copy of their birth certificates, to prove you are related, will be enough. If you have the same surname you are very unlikely to be stopped anyway.

I do this five or six times a year. Believe me!

MyVisionsComeFromSoup · 22/06/2015 10:54

I'd be tempted to tell the school in advance that their father is planning to ask for authorisation and let them know that you don't approve. That might help your day to day relationship with the school.

formidable · 22/06/2015 10:55

Look, if school are happy to authorise it then it's got nothing to do with you anyway really - he is their father and is entitled to take them, if he has school permission.

You may as well let it go.

If he takes them without permission then you need to point out to school where the fine and the blame needs to go.

If school doesn't authorise and he doesn't take them, then stay miles out of it to avoid getting the shit from him. It's between him and the school.

Let the school be the bad guy here. Pick your battles.

HoldYerWhist · 22/06/2015 10:59

It sounds like this is less about being a stickler for term time rules and more about jealousy that he gets to take them away.

And that's understandable, I think. But it's not necessarily fair on the dc.

Stop him if you want, but be completely honest with yourself about the reason.

Original poster
PeggyTheClothesHorse · 22/06/2015 11:07

I understand why it seems that way Hold and I've been honest that jealousy does play a part but it's definitely more about the rules for me. I'm a rule player in general. When we were together, his sister wanted us all to go on holiday during school term time (she does this a lot with her DC, her school seems to be ok with it?) but I said no on the grounds that it would mean taking the kids out of school. The holiday never happened for this reason.

XH is also planning to take them to Lapland this year, something he knows was always my dream to do but will never be able to afford now. I'm really really upset about this, more than the term time holiday, but I know it's not something I can stop him from doing.

I won't deny that I feel this is very unfair. He has already taken them away several times this year in the UK and has two holidays abroad planned. I'm taking them away for a weekend to a caravan because it's all I can afford (although I'm grateful I can at least afford that).

OP posts:
HoldYerWhist · 22/06/2015 11:11

Peggy your dc will know, appreciated and remember fondly that it was you who wiped their eyes, knew their friends, fed them and kept them healthy and happy.

A couple of holidays a year, whilst great fun, won't come close to raising them!

grannytomine · 22/06/2015 11:19

formidable, would the couple I know have been treated differently due to the mother feeling there was a chance he wouldn't bring them back? I know she was able to do something to stop him getting a passport. I don't see her often but if I do I will ask how it worked.

jossiesGiants1 · 22/06/2015 11:26

your worried the school will authorise the holiday.....

That's says it all, this isn't about a 4 and 7y old missing five days of school, this is about your jealousy that your ex is taking them on the first trip abroad.

I don't actually agree with taking kids out of school, 4 and 7 isn't the end of the world though as they will not miss much but don't dress this up as anything but jealousy on your part.

Original poster
PeggyTheClothesHorse · 22/06/2015 11:33

jossies, see my post above to Hold.

I said I don't think the school will authorise it (I'm 95% sure they won't) but I'm worried that they might because I don't agree with term time holidays, especially 6 weeks after the youngest has started school. If I was entirely about jealousy the I would just say no outright. What I've said is he can take them the week after during half term.

OP posts:
redshoeblueshoe · 22/06/2015 11:34

Where I live he probably would be allowed to take them out of school for this, but in the next borough they would not so you are in the best position to know if they would. I would speak to the head and say you do not approve so will they ensure any fine goes to him.

I cannot believe the crap you are getting on this thread, maybe some people think its fair that you get landed with the fine that you have already said your XH would not pay.
Jealous - I get that I think its a natural reaction especially to a Disney Dad.

jossiesGiants1 · 22/06/2015 11:35

Sorry that sounds really harsh, especially as I missed your last post about the Lapland trip, which coupled with the upcoming holiday, makes you think your planned Holiday isn’t as exciting.

As Holdyewhist said, any holiday you go on with your children will be just as exciting as any trip with their Dad, but on this occasion, and even though I don’t agree with term time Holiday, I would be inclined to let them go.

To a 4yr old a holiday abroad can be a lot more educational than reception class.

redshoeblueshoe · 22/06/2015 11:37

If I'm getting this right he wants to take them in October, then after that to Lapland - will that be in term time too ?

Original poster
PeggyTheClothesHorse · 22/06/2015 11:53

Disney Dad is a pretty accurate description I'd say. I obviously didn't include all the background information because it's not relevant in many ways to the problem but by that token it's diffcult to understand my feelings given the context.

He recently took the DC on a caravan holiday Friday to Monday and the DCs would have missed half a day. I made it clear I was unhappy about this but said he would have to deal with any questions from the school. In the end it rained so he brought them back early so they didn't miss school.

I guess I'm a bit funny about them missing school because I missed an awful lot due to my parents being a bit chaotic and lax about getting us there and I think it really affected me and my sister.

I'm not sure about the Lapland holiday. I don't think he has any firm plans but has told me he intends to take them. Our youngest's birthday is over xmas too so it's a double whammy. I know I can't stop him though and it will be nice for the DCs even if I don't get to have that experience with them. My feeling is he's only doing it to spite me though as he knows it was something I akways wanted to do.

The term time holiday does feel like another instance of him doing what he wants and leaving me will the fallout. No surprise really since that's how he behaved during our marriage too.

OP posts:
Penfold007 · 22/06/2015 11:58

Does your ex understand that it's £60 per child, per week, per parent so £240 per week and that the local authority can choose to go straight to prosecution if they wish?

I'd be inclined to email with the details and include links to your local authority.

jossiesGiants1 · 22/06/2015 12:06

Redshoe...I fucking hate the term 'Disney Dad', sure we don’t know all the background information but that’s out of order. You sound like you have a chip on your shoulder over something…

Based on the information we have, all this Dad wants to do is take his kids away on holiday with the rest of his family and due to cost needs to do it during term time.
The Lapland trip sounds as if will be over the Christmas holidays..

Sometimes separated Dads can't win, they are either called a ‘deadbeat’ for not providing for and taking an interest in the kids, or a 'Disney Dad' if they are trying their best to provide and take an interest.

redshoeblueshoe · 22/06/2015 12:32

jossie - the dad in this case is being a bully - if I can't take my kids in term time you can't take them ever

I don't think all dads fall in to one category or the other. As he is also planning other trips this year and they have all ready been away a few times I doubt they can't afford it - he just wants to pay less.
I always enjoyed the peace and quiet when my X took the kids away Grin

TedAndLola · 22/06/2015 12:46

At first I was going to say YANBU but having read your further posts, YABU. This is more about stopping your ex having fun with the kids and getting brownie points from them than about their school careers.

On the other hand, he is being just as unreasonable and using the kids against you. I think you both need to try and put your issues aside and make decisions based on what's best for the children.

PurpleCrazyHorse · 22/06/2015 12:50

Your kids will definitely remember that you're the one who tended to grazed knees, reassured them at the dentist, did fun (probably free or cheap) stuff with them (rolling down hills, climbing trees etc), made memories with them.

Yes, lapland might be fun (and galling that you won't share that with them, if indeed it is actually booked) but when their dad isn't interested in them going forward, they'll pick up on that. It's about a relationship, not providing expensive holidays. If all he's interested in is one-upmanship, then they will see him for who he truly is.

Personally, if this holiday is authorised by the school, I'd let them go. If not, then no. Up to exH to sort out authorisation though. I wouldn't want to risk prosecution because of a holiday he wants to take them on. Plus if it's the week before half term, then your DCs will simply have two weeks off before going back, so less disruptive than a week holiday, then school, then half term IYSWIM. Let the school decide.

PurpleCrazyHorse · 22/06/2015 12:54

I know nothing about exs and passports/holidays. I'd suggest getting some legal advice on this so you know if he's bullying you about it or genuinely can stop you. Don't get anxious about it until you know if it's a possibility or not. Nothing better than to be chilled out when he says stuff like this if you know it's not true.

You will need to sort out passports though and for you both to have access to them. It's no good if one of you keeps them and then won't let the other use them. Kids ones are valid for 5yrs, so even if you aren't planning to go abroad now, you might want to in 5yrs time.

Lancelottie · 22/06/2015 12:56

Doesn't he need them to have passports for Lapland?

Original poster
PeggyTheClothesHorse · 22/06/2015 13:28

I've no doubt that XH loves our DC but it's a selfish kind of love iyswim. He very much favours our eldest and in quite an obvious way. He's also a huge hypocrite in that he will happily critisize me for something he will happily do himself. He has had two girlfriends in the last two months, both of whom have been introduced to our DC along with their children. So he broke up with one girlfriend, then two weeks later took our children on a caravan holiday with his new girlfriend and her child. He makes promises then breaks them all the time. He asks me to be flexible with him which I do, then won't do the same for me. He only cares about himself. I know he'd go mad if I were to take the DC out of school for a holiday.

He says he will pay any fines that are due but I don't believe him. He already owes me nearly a grand in money he's agreed to pay me for one thing or another (all child related expenses).

I can't stress enough that this is mainly due to them missing school but the other stuff does play a part. I am fine with him taking them away during half term, just not during the school time. Incidentally, he'll take them the week before half term then guess who will be expected to sort childcare out for galf term? It won't be him, it's never him.

Maybe my DC will look back and be grateful for everything but right now I'm coming to terms with a lifelong illness, struggling with everything that's expected of me, pulling in a shitty p/t wage because someone has to be flexible to have the kids when they're not at school. Then he takes all the glory. I've already come to terms with that but I'm pissed off that he can make a decision to take them out of school and I'm the bad guy because im saying we should stick to the rules the school sets. I'm always the one that has to make the decisions that are in their best interests. He just wants everything his own way. I have tried co-parenting with him, I've tried being reasonable. He's either not interested or incapable. Everything has to be his own way or he throws a giant strop and I get a torrent of abuse. I haven't said 'no' to him taking them away, I've said 'no' to him doing it during term time which has potential repercussions for all of us.

OP posts:
googoodolly · 22/06/2015 13:35

Originally I was going to say YABU, but reading your updates, YANBU. I don't have a problem with term-time holidays for small children, BUT he owes you over £1,000 - I think you should tell him that when he's paid you what he owes for his children, pays for passports and pays you the money for the fines upfront, then he can take them on holiday.

Chances are doing all of that would be more expensive than waiting the week and taking them during half-term anyway, so it should put him off enough to realise how ridiculous he's being. He can't get away with owing you money and then go against your wishes by spending that money on a term-time holiday! Cheeky bugger.

formidable · 22/06/2015 14:26

grannytomine Yes if you think they won't be brought back you can stop it. You need a firm reason for thinking this, and evidence.

YouTheCat · 22/06/2015 15:38

Go and speak to the head (arrange an appointment) and explain that you'd really rather your children weren't taken out of school for this holiday (he will agree with you) and just ask that if the children's father puts in an application for a term time holiday would he mind refusing it?

That way it scores you brownie points with the head and takes the decision out of your hands.

mynewpassion · 22/06/2015 15:47

YABU. You say you are about rules but the children have been late to school often.

Its not about rules but more about jealously. The rules state that if you want to take the children out of school term time unauthorised, then you can pay the fines. He's willing to do that. Rules stuck to.