To think men have no right to stand outside abortion clinics and do this.

[QuestioningStuff]

Posted before about my pregnancy. I am having a termination today. This is not a decision I've made lightly.

I've arrived at the clinic and there is a middle aged man and his young teen son standing outside with camp chairs and flasks. Putting up awful pictures and signs. Trying to hand out leaflets.

I think women who do this are also scum but how on earth could a man think he has any right to do this? Turn up at a place where women are at their most scared and vulnerable and try to bully them?

It's really really upset me. I hate them so much right now.

I want to go and tell them exactly what I think of them but don't think that would be helpful at this time.

These people are convinced that abortion is a very grave wrong and nothing is going to change their minds about this. But I don't think it's appropriate for them to be sitting outside the clinics.

I think they should admit that it is scientifically incorrect to state that there is only one body involved. If people have power of their convictions they shouldn't need to pretend otherwise.

"It's such a fallacy that most women feel guilt at having an abortion."

It is also an irrelevance. We often have to make choices that make us feel sad, or even guilty- but which are absolutely the right decision for us to make

It's harrassment. Women have terminations for all sorts of reasons - medical, social, psychological, etc, and it's completely inappropriate to harrass people at a difficult time in their lives like this. There are other avenues to make voices and opinions heard.

Sitting outside clinics is for lazy people who can only be bothered to pick the low-hanging fruit, in protest terms.

These people are convinced that abortion is a very grave wrong and nothing is going to change their minds about this. But I don't think it's appropriate for them to be sitting outside the clinics.

Absolutely. Absolutely. People are entitled to their beliefs. Just not to use them to justify being bullies. And since they refuse to accept that moral distinction, I think the law should do it for them.

mummyusername exactly, a foetus is not a person, so you can use arguments like "who would look after the baby" without having to use the same arguments against killing people. Because it's not a person.

Why don't they protest against abortion outside Parliament, and campaign for the law to be changed if that's what they want? And it does make a difference that they were men. They want a restriction in place that could never affect them.

A termination is another medical procedure done with the consent and choice of the woman.

She may feel upset, relived, devestated, supported or unsupported, not bothered, happy or sad.

None of those emotions are strange or should be of concern to anyone else except the woman and whoever she involves.

You either support a woman's right to bodily autonomy or you don't in which case time limits to abortions are a nonsense.

Turning it around how absolutely disgusting is it for anyone to think that an audit woman is incapable and unable to make choices about her body! Totally bizarre.

They like standing outside clinics because they are mysogynistic fuck wits, I have absolutely no idea why any woman would to be honest. Bloody bat shit crazy I
Suppose.

No comment to add except sending my best wishes to the op.

Look after yourself.

Think u need to read up on your feminism sansarya

Um no, I think you do...

Pro-choice means that you support women having access to safe and legal abortion if it's what they want. Using the term "pro-abortion" implies that you want all pregnancies terminated, which is nonsense.

Hope you're ok OP

Personally I believe everyone has the right to an opinion on abortion, but nobody has the right to intimidate and harass people outside an abortion clinic.

You're right sansarya. A quick Google shows me that this article i read is actually the only result with pro-abortion in it. I assumed it was a new thing after I read the article.
www.salon.com/2015/04/24/i_am_pro_abortion_not_just_pro_choice_10_reasons_why_we_must_support_the_procedure_and_the_choice/

"Absolutely. Absolutely. People are entitled to their beliefs. Just not to use them to justify being bullies. And since they refuse to accept that moral distinction, I think the law should do it for them."

There's desperation lent to the process by the idea of a baby's life being lost, that being the stance these people start from.

I don't think there's a dilemma between keeping abortion that is legal and safe so we don't have terrible problems, and wanting to appeal to/convince people to avoid termination where it is at all possible for them.

The problem lies in how this is to be achieved sanely - I always thought those protestors haranguing women at the abortion clinic were a US thing.

I looked up the definition of criminal harassment. The CPS website summarises it as follows:

"In this legal guidance, the term harassment is used to cover the 'causing alarm or distress' offences under section 2 of the Protection from Harassment Act 1997 as amended (PHA), and 'putting people in fear of violence' offences under section 4 of the PHA. The term can also include harassment by two or more defendants against an individual or harassment against more than one victim.

Although harassment is not specifically defined in section 7(2) of the PHA, it can include repeated attempts to impose unwanted communications and contact upon a victim in a manner that could be expected to cause distress or fear in any reasonable person.

A prosecution under section 2 or 4 requires proof of harassment. In addition, there must be evidence to prove the conduct was targeted at an individual, was calculated to alarm or cause him/her distress, and was oppressive and unreasonable.

Closely connected groups may also be subjected to 'collective' harassment. The primary intention of this type of harassment is not generally directed at an individual but rather at members of a group. This could include: members of the same family; residents of a particular neighbourhood; groups of a specific identity including ethnicity or sexuality, for example, the racial harassment of the users of a specific ethnic community centre; harassment of a group of disabled people; harassment of gay clubs; or of those engaged in a specific trade or profession."

It does seem to me that where you are putting up large graphic pictures of foetuses and graphic descriptions your intention must be to cause alarm and distress. Certainly if your conduct is of the type that Hygge describes, when you are haranguing woman who simply approach the clinic, you must meet the definition of harassment. This really is something the police need to deal with.

I believe in the US there have been occasions when people attending funeral have been protected from the attention of the Westboro Baptist Church by a cordon of legitimate protesters keeping them away. That wouldn't be practicable on a daily basis to protect people visiting abortion clinics, but it would be good if the occasional demonstration of that nature could be set up with a cordon of people surrounding the anti-abortion demonstration so that they couldn't be seen by those attending the clinic.

here's the link again if anyone would like to campaign for exclusion zones around clinics

I don't think there's a dilemma between keeping abortion that is legal and safe so we don't have terrible problems, and wanting to appeal to/convince people to avoid termination where it is at all possible for them

I'm. Sure it's possible for many. they just don't want to have a baby. that's allowed. and it's no one else's business.

who defines "where possible" ?

"saving one life" does not justify destroying several others.

icimoi I think organisations like the patriot guard riders do that at soldiers funerals.

I think that the majority of pro choice groups are unwilling to set up counter protests outside clinics as it turns the surrounding area into a war zone.

Bumping so that others can see the link to campaign for exclusion zones around clinics

They have a right to an opinion, but not to intimidate.

There does, however, seem to be an opinion on this thread that men should should just shut up and put up.

Men commenly feel deep love for their unborn, but are often completly powerless in the final decision.......

Would any of you like to be in that position?

Of course they're powerless in the final decision. Anything else is too chilling to contemplate.

to want to appeal/convince people to avoid termination if at all possible

WTAF.

So woman are habitually far too stupid to decide, actually no I don't want to carry a baby, give birth and care for that child for the rest of my life.

Thanks so much for helping me avoid that by shouting at me outside a clinic. Now where's the practical, financial, emotional support if I keep it. Oh hang on did you just say fuck off?

I had an abortion when I was 19
My mum took me and parked a bit up the road from the clinic as there were about 12 protestors (mostly men) outside with chairs and big table with horrible signs and placards.
I was told beforehand to ring the clinic and someone would come out to collect me to take me in past the 'peaceful protestors', as I walked by arms linked with the receptionist one of the men spat at me and called me a murderer
as if i wasn't feeling shit enough as it was !
The police were called and they were moved ... Across the road
I strongly believe they should not be allowed outside clinics , it's so unfair

Hope your procedure went ok OP x