To think I am making a mess of this

[Mangolimes]

I would hugely appreciate any advice on dealing with this situation.

I have a brother who is 37 this winter. He has always been 'difficult'; he has, I suspect, undiagnosed ASD. In addition to this, he's had serious mental health problems including one voluntary admission to a psychiatric ward 4 years ago.

To be honest, I find my brother difficult to like, most of the time. He has little by way of a sense of humour and the things he does find funny are bizarre, mostly involving someone else's misfortune or discomfort in some way. I guess because of this he has hardly any friends. He hasn't worked much either. He has a professional qualification but received a conditions of practice from the associations professional body 6 years ago due to his health. This was finally lifted 2 years ago and he got a job, but it didn't work out. Then he got another job, but the inevitable happened. So he's 'used' his qualification for two and a half years in total.

He is quite whingey and prone to theatrics. He fell down when we were skiing and made such a huge, embarrassing fuss - bellowing in 'agony' and moaning and whining. He falls 'ill' with alarming regularity - one of the points made to him when he had a conditions of practice made against him working was the size of his medical file and the fact that there was suspected Munchausins syndrome, something he hotly denies. I can't explain the number of times he's ill - so ill he can't possibly get out of bed, yet clearly he can because he goes to the doctor.

He constantly wants to 'come round', I suspect as I'm the only form of human contact he has, yet when you try to suggest stuff he could do he just says 'yeah, what a GREAT idea!' then doesn't do it. He brings up inappropriate topics of conversation up - talking about a cocaine addicted, prostutute using friend of his at an 18th birthday party - everyone knew this friend. Pointed out his mate might not want a load of young girls knowing this fact but he was just spluttering and giggling away to himself. Doesn't see this is the reason he has no friends at all.

He's never had a girlfriend, he desperately wants one but ... Always looks scruffy. Always wearing stained, too big clothes.

I want out. I want to stop being associated with him. I want to be non contact.

But how the HELL do you do this, in practice?! Do I just say 'I can't fucking stand you? Leave me the hell alone and stop coming round here all the time!' We have property we jointly own (our parents are dead and left us an inheritance.) So how to go about this?

Also I don't like him, but ... I'm all he's got. And I know he can't help being who and what he is but I'm so tired and ground down by it.

Help!

My DS has ASD and I'd be devastated if my DD ever felt this way about him. ASD is a lifelong disability, getting a diagnosis won't suddenly make your brother change. Support services are being slashed and there is very little post diagnosis support out there for adults. If he'd received the right help at an early age he may have developed better coping strategies, better social skills and had a happier life. I feel very sad for you both, I hope you find a way to work this out.

Mango, how does the flat fit in? Does he live in it; or do you? Can you afford to get away even if you just rent something for a few weeks?

I completely agree that you need time away from him.

I have a sister with undiagnosed asd, I've dealt with the parental funeral, the rudeness, selfish behaviour etc for years. She isn't as reliant on me as your brother is so I'm not comparing the situations but just saying I can understand a little of the resigned responsibility you feel.

It has taken years but I have found ways to manage my own feelings, I have my own family who do give me love and support. You have to be quite brutal to gain distance from your brother but maybe that could be emotional distance rather than NC as you sound like that might make you a bit sad as well as relieved.

I wouldn't respond to posters who don't seem to get this, you sound worn out with it and need to get support here for yourself not spend time explaining things to people who don't understand.

I'm sure my mum would have been devastated as well, Dogs, but can I just draw attention to that sentence:

i would be devastated if my DD ever felt this way about him

Not 'I would be devastated if my DD was ever this stressed/I would be devastated if he ever drove her to this point.'

That's what I'm dealing with.

The flat - we both own it and there are tenants in it, although the rent goes straight to him.

I also believe that it's fine to dislike siblings or family members.

Thanks jelly.

I just feel like I'm reaching desperation point.

Ok, so tonight you need to be kind to yourself and think through what you can and can't do. Have a bath, some ice cream or a soppy film - anything to just be gentle to your mind x

Then tomorrow you can start the processes you need to do. If he has keys to your flat, change the locks. Write down what he has to know. What did you do before?

Why does the rent go straight to him - is it the rent that is his living?

And while not so extreme, my parents are also devastated about my relationship with my sister. I can't get them to see that driving me to breaking point isn't ok. You have to look after yourself, OP - your life also matters.

I think you have to do whatever you need to do for your own health, however, I don't think you should say it isn't because of his condition, because it is at the end of the day. He behaves the way he does because he has a medical condition (disorder, whatever. Same difference). If he didn't have it he'd likely be a totally different person. It's a bit like saying that (for example) your brother has epilepsy and his fits embarrass you.

So - walk away if you need to, but be prepared to own the reasons why.

As for the flat, perhaps you can buy him out.

I have similar issues and feelings about a sibling Mango and I understand the guilt you feel . But you feel what you feel. There will be plenty of people making out that you are unreasonable, they likely see this from a very different perspective.But you are the one who has lived your life with your sibling and if you can't feel loving, forgiving and protective then there are probably good reasons for that.

It sounds like you're posting on here to ask for permission/validation for something you already know you want to do. I think you should find a counsellor, if you can afford to, and talk about letting go of this guilt you're feeling.

I think some posters here are being unfair. This is your life and it sounds as if he's been a negative part of it for too long. I don't think its worth it for the sake of the word 'family'.

Take care of yourself.

This thread reminds me of one's about elderly parents and the difficulties caring for them. People who have loving, respectful relationships with their parents, say things like, "oh I'd never put my mother in a home, she did so much for you how can you not take care of her now?".

But then lots of us who are crying with frustration and can no longer cope feel so guilty for our feelings. But if we've had a less supporting, loving, friendly, relationship with our parent, that effects how we feel caring for them in old age.
And the OP has had her whole life overshadowed by her brothers issues and shouldn't be made feel bad for deciding to put her needs first at last.

OP you need to do what's best for you and I suspect you already have decided what that is. If you want to go NC, you need to cut off every point of contact you have including the flat.

I'd go for brutally honest and being NC in communication first, just to give you some clear headspace away.

Mango these are rhetorical questions but ones you'll need answers to in order to make a life for yourself. Is he financially self-supporting, is he capable of managing his own financial and daily living affairs when left alone or is that something you/others also have to do for him?

There is a way to put money into Trust for dependants/relatives which will be overseen by Trustees, often set up by a S.T.E.P solicitor, but that of course involves assessment of the person the Trust is set up for, I'm guessing your parents didn't do that, perhaps they felt it wasn't needed.

I think you need to clarify two things, one, how you can enable him to live independently (possibly with some form of funded support) without assuming he can rely on you for anything at all and two, how you can separate yourself financially from him as well as emotionally and pursue a life on your own.

When you have both your lives ordered to the point that you can cope, please take some time out to grieve, you've not yet had a chance and it's something you need to process in your own time away from anyone else's demands and needs.

He is your brother and he might be unwell, but more importantly (if your suspicions are correct and he has ASD) he is (could be) disabled. You said:
I want to go non contact because he roars with laughter at people being hurt and humiliated; I want to go non contact because he invades my personal space; because he embarrasses me; because he drains me.. He is not "unwell", you don't "get better" from a disability. But I'm sure you would not want to go NC with your brother because he is disabled. Some things, like boundaries could be worked on, too. It must be very difficult and must take care of yourself - but to me it seems like he really needs you.

I have a friend whose brother had a mental illness and after years of helping supporting he couldn't do it anymore. His dad died when they were young and he was the eldest and had to support everyone. He had to stop. He is one of the best people you could know but he could no longer cope with his db. His wife can do it to an extent and his grown up kids do it.. Give him lifts call in for chat etc but they are not as emotionally involved. Itching he struggles with how much his family have had to cope with and had reached the limit. He has no contact with him.

I think

potoftea absolutely.

As I mentioned earlier, my brother was abysmal to me growing up. He went a long way to absolutely crushing my self esteem as a child with his incessant bullying, name calling, undisguised contempt for me and outbursts of violence. He is six years older than me and at the time, was a little sadist. It was nothing like a fair fight. He delighted in humiliating and upsetting me.
My mother loved us both but was pretty useless at stopping him...she just kept telling herself (and me) that it was 'normal' and pretty much waved away my complaints. She didn't want to look at him through my eyes.

From being an impressionable little girl who looked up to him and just wanted him to be nice to me, I soon became an angry teenager resentful of him, then a distant adult disengaged from him.

In his late teens/early twenties after a prolonged period of depression, he became psychotic and was diagnosed first with schizophrenia, then later with a severe generalised psychotic disorder. He remains dependent on medication to stay stable to this day. During his more severe psychotic episodes before he was inevitably hospitalised, he was extremely aggressive and intimidating towards me and I was terrified of him.
Eventually I was awarded a housing association flat at the age of 18 to keep me safe from him after he held a knife to my throat, as he still lived at home with our mum (who he did not target in the same way). I didn't want him within fifty feet of me.

Our relationship remained fractured, although I stayed civil for my mum's sake up until our she died. Then he sought to maintain a relationship with me...I guess because he didn't have anyone else.

My brother has long since gained insight into his illness and manages it very well. He has grown up too, and is generally really pleasant to me these days. I know he feels genuine remorse for the way he treated me growing up. He has mellowed out a LOT.
We have a good relationship. The kids like him. He comes to stay maybe once or twice a year.

I do keep an eye on him by calling fortnightly...and he calls me if he's having a 'blip' and I liaise with his mental health team. I am 'there' for him if required.

But do I love him? No...I can't say that I do. I am mighty glad that he lives 50 miles away. I wouldn't want him as furniture in my life and no amount of blood-is-thicker-than-water schtick will make me feel any different. That's my experience and there's nothing I can do to change it.

Don't tell the OP she has to take her brother on. He dragged her across the room by her hair. He pesters her. He's aggressive and obnoxious and shows her no respect at all. That's her experience.
It's not fair to expect sisterly devotion.

I completely understand how you feel. It's almost impossible to have feelings for someone who has never ever given you one ounce of happiness or enjoyment or kindness.

First of all, can you separate yourself financially? What is the situation there? Do you jointly own a flat which is rented out? If so, what are the consequences of you two selling the flat? Would he just spend his money? Would it be enough to buy somewhere else? Would it affect any benefits he gets?

I completely understand how you feel. It's almost impossible to have feelings for someone who has never ever given you one ounce of happiness or enjoyment or kindness.

I could've just written that. Apols for the essay.

I don't think lavender is being at all helpful. You are allowed to reach the end of your tether; you don't have to support someone just because they are a relative. It's easy to tell someone else what to do when you aren't the one having to do it.

I am NC with a parent who has undiagnosed AS/ASD, have a thread in Relationships about this currently. Please don't let lavenders frankly unhelpful and unempathetic comments get to you. You don't have to tolerate feeling miserable and invaded and abused.

I don't know how it would work practically but you have the right to go NC.

Sympathy. It sounds like the lack of control you have over the situation/his demands is part of the problem - maybe if you knew you would only have to see or speak to him once a month at a pre-arranged time it would be easier? Is there any possibility you could set up an arrangement like that and just ignore him the rest of the time...?

You surmise the problem is ASD, and commenters are treating your theory as if it were a diagnosis. You dont really know that is isnt something worse than ASD, and you could be in real danger in the long term if he continues to live an unmedicated life with you as his only contact with reality.

If you cannot go NC, I think you need to employ much of the same sort of advice that soon to be Ex spouses are advised. Get counselling yourself to help you deal with things like your anger with your parents, him, and the situation. counselling can help you come to grips with this aspect of your life and you can begin to prepare yourself for what sounds like it can never end well.

As STBx's do: Set up a PAYG phone exclusively for his calls, and a new email just for his email, so that you have some control over contact from him. block him on Social Media, or use settings to limit his ability to see/interact with you. Insist on scheduling visits rather than jumping to meet or avoid his suggestions. Something like you will meet every Tuesday for coffee, he can come to your house on the third Sunday. Given his history of abusing you, you need to begin documenting your interactions with him, the expectations you have set out, and any time he challenges them. You need to be ready to report him to the police if he makes the least threat, verbal or physical.

I would expect, sooner or later, he is going to abuse someone as he has abused you and end up in jail. Your records may be his best defense and help him get some sort of diagnosis then. Maybe. Alternatively, his behaviour will irritate someone with their own issues who will beat the crap out of him, and again, once he is in hospital, maybe your records can help put him on the road to diagnosis. Or maybe he gets beaten so badly, the situation is resolved. I hope something changes and he finally sees the need for diagnosis. In the meantime, you need to control your life as best you can, and not let his chaos rule your life.

Thank you, I'm so very grateful and pitcsh, your experience sounds similar to mine.

People talk about sibling devotion - well, my brother shows NO interest in my life. All he wants me for is so he can go out for things to eat, shovels food in like he's starving to death, then out again. He is dirty, has big dreams but no idea how to go about obtaining them.

Doubt he'd end up in jail.

No, he wouldn't respond to that. I could say 'I will meet you every third Sunday for coffee" but my phone would be going off in between times. If I moved, he'd follow. Trust me.

'Getting counselling' is very expensive, with the greatest of respect, and at around £45 a session isn't something I can commit to.