To ask for time off for egg donation?

[phoenixrose314]

I decided to become an altruistic egg donor back in December. Hubby and I decided we weren't going to have any more children, but I was once told I couldn't have children and then got lucky, so I wanted to "pass on the karma" or something and give another couple a chance at having their family. I got matched to a couple through an agency, it took a long time to go through all the testing, I went on the pill to match me up to a couple, fast forward six months and we're finally at the point where I am ready to donate and the recipient is ready to receive.

I am a teacher, and I told the agency from the start that it would have to fit around work as I don't believe in taking time off when not needed, the children I teach need consistency and need me to be there. All was going well and we were scheduled for half term for egg collection... all my appointments for the many, many blood tests and ultrasounds were late after school or on weekends and then into the half term. Then it came to light that I wasn't having enough FSH and my eggs weren't developing quickly enough, so I had to up my dose and the date for egg collection was pushed back... INTO term time.

Now the doctors asked me to do it yesterday, but I said no because it was the kids' first day back after half term, so I arranged it for today during my release time (I have from 11.30 onwards today free for planning and assessment time). I figured that way, nobody needs to make any arrangements, I can just get it done. Only I forgot that we have a staff meeting after school, which usually I would need to be back for if I am off site during that time.

So I put in a request to my Head to have the time off (just for the staff meeting). I knew it was very last minute, but as she didn't need to bring in anybody to cover me as I was supposed to be out anyway, I didn't think it would matter.

I got pulled into her office at the end of the day yesterday and read the riot act about taking time off for personal reasons, that my release time is not to do whatever I like with (directly contradicting what she said to me last year which was that I can do what I like in my release time as long as the work gets done), that she has no inclination or grounds to grant me the time off, that staff meetings are not optional (er, I do know that, that's why I asked for time off). She then asked me if I was "done" after the appointment and I said yes, and she asked if it was for me, and I said no. She pulled a face that clearly said she wasn't impressed with that answer. She granted me the time, but said quite clearly that I am not to ask for anything like this again.

I do realise it was last minute, but I chose a time that I thought wouldn't have been a problem, I have been to so many appointments around work to try to not let it affect my work life at all, the original egg collection was supposed to happen in the holidays so it would never have affected it at all, and I just feel like she was ripping me apart, almost making me feel SELFISH for doing it!

I was in tears most of the evening yesterday. I am aware that with all the hormones I've been having to inject, I am probably more sensitive than usual, but I just can't believe how horrible she was. I could understand if she'd said "Look, given that you're doing this for someone else and not yourself, there's no real grounds for me to grant you this request", but she honestly just laid into me like I was doing it for fun, or to get out of work. It's not actually been very fun feeling bloated and injecting myself twice a day and being hormonal and being exhausted from travelling to and from London every other day.

So... am I being unreasonable, or was she?

And the same goes for getting your hair done during school time

Naughty me.

I wonder how many of the people bitching about a teacher doing something in working hours are actually posting on mumsnet from their place of employment?

Naughty me

yes actually, it is. Whether or not you accept that.

I think you really didn't understand the vagaries of egg collection if you were so sure it could all be done to order within a specific week without the risk of it moving around.

I had three egg collection done, some took much longer than others because of the way my body reacted to the drugs and unfortunately all of them had to be done under a general.

I agree it would be wise if you choose to do this again to stick to the summer holidays.

In your position I would just have explained I had a hospital appt for a gynae procedure and left it at that. She might not have been nice to you but she's technically correct so I would just let it lie and move on.

YABU. Employers don't give time off for blood donation, it should have been arranged for after school.

If you had a different job you could have used annual leave or flexi time but because of your job you have no choice. You sound considerate in ensuring there is no cover cost implication and not missing your teaching time - so if you were the teacher of my child I would have no issue at all.

So long as the job gets done, an employer shouldn't get overly hung up on precisely when it gets done. Many employers will expect people to work outside of normal hours to get the job done. Fair enough -it's sometimes necessary. But, if they can eat into employees lives, it's only fair to be understanding if occasionally the employee's life requires a little flexibility from the boss!

It's in an employer's best interests to have happy staff - it makes everything run more smoothly if staff feel valued and understood, so while your head may be within her rights to kick off, she has been shortsighted and killed any desire you may have had to go above and beyond for her in the future. Ultimately her loss.

So long as the job gets done, an employer shouldn't get overly hung up on precisely when it gets done

Rubbish. Certain people are required to work certain hours in certain capacities so it does matter when it gets done! I am incredibly flexible with my staff as I am often not in the office given the nature of my job. But if they started showing up at noon every day, leaving at 5 and saying they would do the extra of an evening or weekend, this would be completely unacceptable. I firmly believe in providing flexibility but there are limits.

OPs thread has been derailed a bit and as i've previously said, I don't think her one off case is a big deal, but maintaining that it's your right to do the work when you see fit as long as it gets done, and in spite of set hours in a contract is riduculous and I don't imagine many employment lawyer would support this.

Midnite I'm not bitching. I'm an employment lawyer simply stating the facts i.e that its potentially misconduct to go to do your sainsbury's shop and get your hair done during working time.

And yes I'm at work, but given that I work for myself I'm free to do whatever I want. I recognise that there's a cost attached to me not working and MNing rather than preparing for an employment tribunal hearing and I accept that cost. If I worked for someone else I wouldn't dream of being on MN during working hours because I know that's grounds for disciplinary action.

Bamboo obviously some jobs need to be done within a specific time frame - teaching a class, for example. However, there are plenty of jobs (like planning and preparation and assessment) that can be done more flexibly. This costs the employer nothing.

If you read the rest of my paragraph I said that occasionally the employer should be flexible, obviously where the job lends itself to this. I didn't say your staff should turn up at lunchtime everyday for no good reason . That said, lots of employers do offer flexible working as it can offer benefits to all concerned. I'm heading off yhread with that though. Suffice it to say that there are ways of saying no without being an arse about it and it sounds like the head was arsey and if it's possible to accommodate an employee without it costing the employer anything then I can't see the harm in doing so.

It is a noble thing to do this egg donation but it shouldn't really be affecting your ability to do a job which it seems to be. But I agree that it isn't really your employer's responsibility to support time off for this. But I think that the staff meeting wasn't as important as being in the classroom so I think the Head could have made an exception and granted you the time off.

Head was out of order to 'read the riot act' at you by you did spring it on her quite late.

I would have said I had an urgent medical appointment and not discussed the private details.

i wouldn't expect to use holiday to cover medical appointments. Just stay later/come in early to get my work done.

I agree with those who have said you should have told your head that you were going in for a medical procedure without specifying for what.

A line such as "I saw the doctor during half term and time-sensitive day surgery is required" might have saved you the bollocking you got as well as paving the way to an explanation if you are not at your 100% best tomorrow.

So long as the job gets done, an employer shouldn't get overly hung up on precisely when it gets done

Maybe they shouldn't though thats a matter of opinion and in all my years employers have been split about this issue and given they are paying me they have the right within reason to dictate the terms of that employment.

But thats besides the point in this case the OP missed a staff meeting. How is she supposed to do the staff meeting another time she can;t have one on her own later that evening.

Completely unrelated to the matter in hand, PPA was brought in to give teachers additional time to complete tasks outside of the classroom. My worry would be that if teachers often use it for going to the shops, banking, or other tasks that they (and many of the rest of the working world) find tricky to get done during the working day, the gvt will see it as 'time off to do whatever' or flexitime that only benefits the individual and not the institution and remove it.

OP, what you are doing is a lovely thing but you must have known this could happen when you looked into it and should have organised it around the summer holiday. Unfortunate reaction from your head but understandable.

Thanks for all your replies, lovely people, whether you're on my side or not. It's very interesting to see it from both sides - like I said, I tried so hard to make sure it wouldn't affect work at all, and I understand her reasoning completely, but she was so horrid to me it made me feel so guilty. And our meeting tonight is only for me and my co-teachers to do the risk assessments for our school trip, which they can easily do without me.

And for all the people that would have said "medical appointment with no details" - our head ALWAYS asks for a copy of the medical appointment letter. So I attached my transcript of every medical appointment I've had to date, including the egg collection, so she can physically see how much I've managed so far to fit it around work, including when the eggs were originally supposed to be harvested.

Our head does not let us do whatever we want in our PPA time, but if we do have appointments that need to be midweek such as dentist/doctor etc, she normally makes allowances for this and prefers us to shift it into our PPA time rather than cause disruption during the rest of the week.

I did have a meeting with her today about one of my children who is being moved to a special needs school soon, and she was back to being courteous and lovely, so possibly yesterday I was over-emotional and she was over-stressed and we both needed a time out!!!

Thanks again for all your replies xxx

Whatever the rights and wrongs - it sounds like its all calmed down anyway.

Good luck with egg collection.

I've had a few occasions when my boss has handled a situation in a way that I felt was unfair and left me in poor light. I found it helpful to draft a very carefully worded letter, unemotionally worded and entirely professional, and I got my Dad to check it over to ensure that it was appropriate and non-inflammatory. I sat on it for a week before sending to ensure that I was happy with it. It helped my to feel that I got my side across to present me in better light, and also to draw a line under it.

If you felt it would be helpful, maybe consider something like this although it needs some improvement:

Dear Headteacher,

I would like to thank you for granting my leave at short notice on date.

I noted your concerns about granting such leave at short notice. As you are aware, I have always endeavoured to demonstrate my commitment and professionalism, and I normally ensure that I am available for all staff meetings, as I appreciate the importance of these.

On this occasion, I did everything in my power to try to arrange my egg donation out of term time, but unfortunately due to reasons beyond my control the date had to be moved. As I did not want to let down the recipient following a six-month process, it was unfortunate that I was put in the position of needing to request leave on this occasion.

I would like to apologise for any inconvenience caused and reassure you of my continued commitment to my role.

Yours etc.

On balance, you may find that it's easier just to let go of the whole thing and move on. She clearly handled the situation unprofessionally and if you can rise above it, I presents you in a better light than her.

Unrelated to the thread really but can an employer insist on knowing the specifics about a medical appt? Some things are private.

They can ask for proof of the medical appointment and often this will give away the nature of the medical issue.

This reminds me of when I put myself on the bone marrow donor register. It said in the application form that you should clear it with work, as you need time off if you're ever called to donate. I did ask, and got the OK, but as a friend of mine (who's done bone marrow and platelet donation) said, what would they do if you didn't ask permission, say no you can't go?

Thing is now like 100 people will want to go on here and say it's not the same comparing a life saving procedure with elective fertility treatment. Yeah whatever sorry I can't hear you, I've gone selectively deaf I've heard that argument so many times.

Well done you, and take care of yourself: egg collection is bloody sore.

I haven't taught for a few years but I did the same as Fiveacres during PPA. Not shopping but having my youngest son at home.
As I was .5, I was allocated half a day a fortnight which was every other thurs afternoon. A staff worked their PPA how they liked, some on site, others on their kitchen table with books spread out and a cuppa. Me? I picked my son up and spend the afternoon at the park instead of him needing to be in nursery. However, I religiously spend Sunday morning from 9-12 in the study at home doing my PPA. Therefore it was done without issue and my HT could view my short and medium term plans any time.

Why is this a problem? I was given 3hours of PPA time every 2wks and every week, not just every 2wks, I would spend 3hours doing my PPA. My head was aware of this and perfectly happy with the arrangement. She could clearly see my P&P was getting done and my obs and results were good too. It works the same in lots of schools.