to wonder why they didn't apply for citizenship before?

[butterfly133]

Yesterday I discovered that two colleagues are, in their words "frantically" applying for British citizenship. One of them has been here 35 years - nearly the length of my life! - as an adult (came here to work at 22) and the other has been here 18 years and spent 12 of those married to an English man. They are both from within the EU and in a panic about a possible Brexit. A more nosey colleague asked why they'd never applied before. I was surprised by the answers. 1) Neither of them care about voting 2) both of them had such full confidence in the EU getting ever closer and even Britain adopting the euro, they didn't think it would ever be "necessary".

My parents are not from the UK but they applied for citizenship the minute they were allowed (before I was born). They found the idea of wanting to live permanently in a country - which both of these colleagues wanted as well - and not having official citizenship to be odd and worrying, as well as "why pay taxes and have no vote".

I was also really amazed by the confidence these colleagues showed in the EU. I remember arguments about the EU from when I was a child, so certainly the older one would have known about those debates. Oh - they also said they were shocked how many votes UKIP got - in numerical terms even if only one seat. I was surprised by all of this. I don't think we will see Brexit, but if I were either of these two, I would have applied ages ago. So I was just surprised. Wondered what others thought?

You lack empathy and imagination, OP. This is usually why people fail to understand why others make perfectly normal decisions that differ from one's own. I can think of dozens of compelling reasons they waited. How interesting that you cannot.

yalla
You may have got confirmation of your British Citizenship i.e. you were already a British Citizen it just needed to be officially acknowledged IYSWIM. That is much cheaper.

Naturalisation costs over 1000

Andy, yep, I see that. I was thinking she may have read the book and either found out the silly stuff she was expected to learn, or forgot a piece of nonsense trivia.

On costs - on top of the £1K, you have to pay to go to the compulsory citizenship ceremony.

If we leave the EU, it is impossible to predict what currently free services will be withdrawn from non- British citizens: education, healthcare etc.

Do those proposing leaving the EU have a plan for this and what to do with non-UK citizen/EU members who are working in the UK now? They can't just deport everyone. They must have a plan (even a bad on) that they believe /pretend won't cause instability.

I've lived here for 27 years now, after not growing up in my country of birth, but another European state anyway. Never thought of myself as anything but European. Went to uni, only ever worked here, married a Brit, my kids have dual nationality. I never planned to 'get stuck' in the UK so citizenship never entered my thinking, especially as until quite recently I'd have had to give up my first nationality. All my schooling was in the second country and higher education was completed here which would make it quite tricky to get a comparable job in my country of birth. But regardless of all that my cultural background is still firmly rooted in my country of birth. So complicated: European...

You've all got me a bit worried, but I keep telling myself that Nigel Farage actually has a German wife . I think I sit in the 'see what happens next' camp. The voting thing annoys me, but not enough, especially given that my vote would be 'wasted' in FPTP. I do vote when allowed to...

Andylion there is no plan, partly because the govt will blithely assume it'll be a yes vote (until it nearly isn't, like in Scotland), partly because the anti-EU brigade will struggle to agree among themselves on this, but most importantly because a big part of this will depend, in the event of an exit, on negotiations with the other EU countries either together (if an EFTA/EEA solution is deemed acceptable) or separately.

Jassy the ceremony is included in the application costs, unless this has been changed since March this year?

There'll be no mass deportations, of course. there's likely to be a lot of charging for stuff - healthcare, for example.
Letâ??s assume that famously non - British spouses can afford to pay for their health care.

IF Britian leaves I expect we will get similar terms as Switzeland and Norway without the wealth these countries have. So no change in status for non British citizens as you will still be a member of the economic area?

I'm another EU citizen living in the UK (nearly 18 years) who hasn't naturalised - mainly because I think the cost is extortionate and speaks of deep and intense xenophobia. I'm going to wait and see though - if there is a vote to leave the EU, there is likely to be a substantial period of transition and negotiation, things won't happen overnight. If the UK government do decide to play hardball, they need to realise that EU governments will play tit for tat with UK citizens living in their countries, and that would be incredibly messy - I think there will be enough opportunities for those of us who are here to naturalise after a referendum.

For healthcare we fortunately do have options - DH is ex US military and we can use the base hospital and all its services. Education could be a problem for the DDs, though.

If Britain leaves then rejoins the EEA, it's not going to satisfy the eurosceptics who will find themselves EU members in all but name, with all the costs but none of the influence.

(I'm actually really puzzled as to what the no voters want, and whether they actually know what they want ... Though that's for another thread.)

I agree though pointy there'd be a long drawn out period of uncertainly and negotiation during which, presumably, migrants would be able to obtain the necessary papers. I remain convinced that long term (+5 years) migrants on either side of the channel have nothing to worry about as long as they are working.

Mistigri that would leave the UK terribly on the outside of Europe. I am also puzzles as to what the no voters want and how they think it will work.

thanks MissMooMoo - I was misinformed.

In a nutshell: your colleagues were victims to normalcy bias.

They simply never considered that circumstances could or would change to their detriment. It is a phenomenon that seems very particular to Western developed countries and is particularly acute in Britain.

I come from a very different cultural and ethnic background, and the extent to which most Brits and North-Western Europeans assume continuity and stability in this manner astounds me.

For example, Sparky's comment: There'll be no mass deportations, of course.

You simply do not know this. In ten years, the political and economic situation in Britain and the EU could mean Britain institutes a policy that means the deportation of certain European nationalities, regardless of whether we see Brexit or not.

If you think this is unrealistic, then consider what may happen if the situation between the EU and Russia continues to deteriorate, and which EU countries may feel Russia is a better horse to back -- particularly in light of supply from GAZPROM or a series of no-strings loans from Russia during a time of austerity.

Throw a spark into the situation that leads to an open declaration of conflict and ... you could find that nationals from Greece, the Balkans or any of the Baltic states suddenly constitute a national security risk.

Shit changes. And when it does, it can change fast.

War with Germany was completely unthinkable to most educated British people in 1905. Back in the 1980s, a lot of people that lived in the urban centres of Yugoslavia, as it was then, didn't even know they were "Serb" or "Croat" or "Bosnian", let alone what their neighbours were. In the early 1970s, Cyprus was not a divided island.

I mean, come on, Britain nearly had a military coup in the mid 1970s.

Things can change fast.

OP, I was never fussed about british citizenship. Had ILR and that was good enough for me. Had the right to work etc etc, besides, I was a forriner and quite happy with it, didn't necessarily want to become British, because I was already a citizen of a country. Does this make sense?
Then I had a child and I had this fleeting thought: what if? My kid having the same passport and name as my DH, me...having 'permission' to abode. Felt too insecure, so I applied for british citizenship, if we're ever to 'fight', my lack of 'britishness' wouldn't became an issue. Whilst I am in Britain, I am British. I go back home, I am myself again.
Funnily enough, I was just discussing this with my mother the other day: should Britain exit EU,I want my kid to be able to study/live etc in Europe, so we are about to apply for a second citizenship for her, just in case.

OH is Danish so no dual nationality allowed (although maybe that's either recently changed or about to change). He's never wanted to give up his identity.

Majority of his colleagues are EU nationals working in the European HQ of a global company. If there was an exit from the EU his company would relocate irrespective of his nationality so it wouldn't buy any security.

At least DDs and I will be permitted dual nationality, as long as we renew our country of origin passports every 5 years (this is considered sufficient proof of commitment to the original nationality and so it should be, given the nuisance and cost...)

I was in the UK for over a decade before I applied for citizenship. I applied because I wanted to move abroad, and it was easier as a brit!

It is an enormous hassle and bother, I hate paperwork. I had a permanent residency, so no need to have citizenship.

Meh. I don't really feel strongly about the whole nation state concept. So I do what I have to do to be able to live where I choose to live, and no more.

Cheers for singling me out, worksalhours. You can't be expected to know but my family background is all too familiar with mass deportations and I have lived through a military coup and martial law. So I am not complacent about major changes in policy in the country where you thought you were safe.
However I don't live my life thinking it is likely in Britain. Nor do I think us leaving the EU would end with mass deportations. It is however likely to be financially less viable for many to stay here and they may well have no choice but to leave.
I think the analogy with Norway and Switzerland works best.
For what it's worth, I hope we stay in.

The reality is that more than Britain exiting the EU would have to happen for people in the situation the OP describes to have a problem. Even without being from the EU, having been resident for a number of years entitles you to remain in the UK, and to apply for citizenship as and when you see fit.

A British exit would just mean that people who were previously in the UK as EU citizens would have to get other papers. If they can provide evidence of continued legal residence for a number of years they would get it.

I a situation where it all goes tits up, a British citizenship can be a liability as well as an asset, particularly if you have to give up your other citizenship, as you may find yourself unable to leave a sinking ship.

Huh, why would an EU citizen bother applying for citizenship? The whole point of the EU is that you can access the same benefits and services whatever country you're a citizen of.

Britain nearly had a military coup in the 1970s? Eh?

I was in the UK on indefinite leave to remain for approx 17 years. Took British citizenship 2 years ago. I put it off because of the hassle of form filling and the expense but finally did it because I wanted the convenience of having a British passport and the security of citizenship.

I could already vote due to my birth nationality.

Theycallmemellowjello that may be the theory but in practice it may not be. And as op says if the uk leaves the eu then things can change drastically.

I've had my ceremony a year ago (happy anniversary to me!) after nine years in the UK. I really wanted to be able to vote and since my home country has allowed dual nationality with other EU states since 2007, at least that barrier was removed.
As someone who doesn't get nationalism/patriotism at all it was weird how emotional I ended up feeling about the process.

I found it BTW lengthy, and the officials I was dealing with were obstructive and less than helpful. Their processes are old fashioned, there's no tracking, bad communication, it makes the tax credit people look positively fast and professional!

As for those saying that they don't think they'd have to fear anything as spouses of British citizens, I wouldn't trust that at all. Marriage confers you absolutely fuck all rights. Just have a look at the stories of non-EU/Brit families ripped apart by the home office here: britcits.blogspot.co.uk/

I wasn't so much worried about being deported, but about loosing recourse to public funds in case I lost my job, got sick etc. Citizenship (which the home secretary reserves the right to remove from me if they feel it necessary) gives me at least some feeling of security.

5 years ago I wasn't that scared, it is certainly only the last few years where the anti EU and anti immigrant headlines screaming from a lot of front pages have begun to make me really uncomfortable.