to wonder why they didn't apply for citizenship before?

[butterfly133]

Yesterday I discovered that two colleagues are, in their words "frantically" applying for British citizenship. One of them has been here 35 years - nearly the length of my life! - as an adult (came here to work at 22) and the other has been here 18 years and spent 12 of those married to an English man. They are both from within the EU and in a panic about a possible Brexit. A more nosey colleague asked why they'd never applied before. I was surprised by the answers. 1) Neither of them care about voting 2) both of them had such full confidence in the EU getting ever closer and even Britain adopting the euro, they didn't think it would ever be "necessary".

My parents are not from the UK but they applied for citizenship the minute they were allowed (before I was born). They found the idea of wanting to live permanently in a country - which both of these colleagues wanted as well - and not having official citizenship to be odd and worrying, as well as "why pay taxes and have no vote".

I was also really amazed by the confidence these colleagues showed in the EU. I remember arguments about the EU from when I was a child, so certainly the older one would have known about those debates. Oh - they also said they were shocked how many votes UKIP got - in numerical terms even if only one seat. I was surprised by all of this. I don't think we will see Brexit, but if I were either of these two, I would have applied ages ago. So I was just surprised. Wondered what others thought?

[sparkysparkysparky]

It's not about the voting. If we leave the EU, it is impossible to predict what currently free services will be withdrawn from non- British citizens: education, healthcare etc. Including those who are currently citizens of EU nations (Ireland and, I think Malta and Cyprus ) are considered differently.
Becoming a British citizen is expensive and demanding (much more than 1,000 pounds, by the way).
I am a British citizen but my grandparents weren't. I don't blame any non - British citizen who is a resident of this country from being anxious.
If I was a British pensioner currently retired in Spain, I would also be looking carefully at my situation to see how protected I would be if I suddenly became a non - EU citizen in an EU country.

[sugarbutter]

DH got his UK citizenship last year, he'd emigrated as a non-EU citizen and he was keen to get citizenship as soon as he'd got indefinite leave to remain. We did have quite a few friends asking why he would bother since he had ILR now, but for us it was part of being fully established in the UK and feeling secure that we could choose to live abroad for a while and still have the option of returning. For us it was a pragmatic decision, getting the vote was interesting but not a major point as we live in a very safe seat, and the whole citizenship ceremony and Life in the UK test were just hoops to jump through.

We'd read some sad stories in the press and online about families being stuck abroad because non EU spouses couldn't settle here and even though we had no plans to live abroad, it keeps our options open and is just a way of looking ahead at potential problems and insuring against them. The fees weren't a big issue for us, DH got in on a work visa due to his skills/savings levels but EU citizens don't have that barrier so it might be a bigger problem for some of them. And I suppose lots of them would just assume they will always be able to live here and so they don't bother. For us I think that even if DH had been an EU citizen we would still have gone for UK citizenship rather than assume anything.

[ghostyslovesheep]

this thread carries a mild wiff of goad ...

maybe they didn't apply because they didn't want to ... now they think it might be beneficial due to the possible implications of leaving the EU

seems common sense to me or am I missing something

[FarFromAnyRoad]

If the ghastliness that is 'brexit' is about to become mainstream then I'm going into hibernation until it's all over.

[ghostyslovesheep]

Britex would be better surely - Brexit is silly

[Corygal]

Citizenship in the UK costs at least a grand, if not more. You can well see why people would avoid it.

[Tamar86]

I think it is Brexit because it rhymes with Grexit.

[butterfly133]

re "Brexit" - sorry, that's the only term I've heard for it?

In answer to general questions, it's not the expense (we talked about this all through yesterday lunch so they said a lot more, I just summarised). Yes, they can and do vote in local elections.

What I find odd, and I should have explained this better, is that their panic has occurred now that we are gearing up for a referendum. If they were that keen on staying here and feel their status is at risk, it seems odd that they didn't apply before. They are actually quite terrified of having to return to their country of origin. In that situation, actively not wanting the citizenship you have already, I would have thought they would have done it before. If their whole panic is triggered by Brexit and they fear being sent back, I would have thought that fear would have existed within them years ago?

[nemno]

My mum lived here for 50 odd years andnever took citizenship. She wished she had by the end of her life as she realised she did identify more as a Brit than her actual nationality but by then there were more hoops to jump through that she couldn't face. The cost for most of those 50 years was not a factor, I think it only recently got so expensive. She regretted mildly not being able to vote but other than that there were no practical downsides to staying her own (EU) nationality.

[butterfly133]

just to clear up another possible misconception - I understand their anxiety, I just wonder how come it didn't kick in before. I think if I wanted to settle somewhere and felt the way they do, then I would have been keen to get citizenship sorted. They are not remotely short of money and didn't even mention the cost. Essentially the reality of the referendum has panicked them, whereas I'm surprised we didn't have a referendum before.

It wasn't my intention to goad anyone, I'm the daughter of immigrants and I'm concerned about my colleagues. I guess I have such an anxious nature, if they were going to go into a panic I thought it would have been a while ago. The lady who was married to an Englishman apparently had a different route to use for application before and she said she really regrets not having done it before.

[morelikeguidelines]

Brexit is term being used in France at least as it is in some newspaper articles I have seen.

I haven't taken my option of dual nationality with another eu country before now because I thought it made no difference, but now I may do.

[Bambambini]

I'm surprised you're surprised! I probably wouldn't have thought about or bothered taking citizenship if i were them.

[morelikeguidelines]

In other words brexit is already the established term and can't be changed by Mn!

[SoupDragon]

Is it the UK or Great Britain who are voting? if it's the UK then Brexit is even more stupid than it first sounds. Which i didnt think was possible. When did we start needing daft made up words for things like this?

[sebsmummy1]

II don't really understand why you are surprised that lots of people choose to do nothing when they dont need to, then choose to do something when they do.

If it's not financial it's apathy. No one would choose to go through a tedious administrative process with a financial outlay if they didn't have to. Your colleagues obviously think there is now a strong chance that we might leave the European Union and this had now galvanised then into actio.

[butterfly133]

PS - just to add, what they were telling me yesterday is that they will lose their jobs because if they are subject to the same rules as non-EU citizens, they will - they tell me - need a permit and need to prove that they are uniquely qualified for their jobs, have an unusual specialism etc. One will be okay with that, and one won't.

so much as I understand that people feel that citizenship doesn't confer benefits, for these two, it will give them the security they are apparently now "really worried" about having. My question is on the timing of their worry.

[butterfly133]

Sebsmummy1 "Your colleagues obviously think there is now a strong chance that we might leave the European Union and this had now galvanised then into actio."

Yes, I guess most people don't worry till something happens, whereas I tend to worry/act the minute a shadow of a whisper of a worry crosses my mind.

[AlbrechtDurer]

Presumably the person mentioned in the OP who has been here 35 years would have had some kind of leave to remain / residency before the EU free movement came into effect, so is not likely to be kicked out the country unceremoniously if we did end up leaving the EU?

[Bambambini]

"My parents have lived in the UK for over 40 years and its most definately home to them. They've never taken British citizenship as it would mean loosing the citizenship of their birth country. They've never felt secure enough to do that, people like the BNP and now UKIP make them feel like they need a fallback position."

That's a really interesting viewpoint on it - and a little sad.

[butterfly133]

Albrecht - that's what I said. She just said it's all very confusing. I don't know what happened before freedom of movement, or when it started.

[Bambambini]

And your opening post did sound a bit goady, judgemental and Ukipish.

[MissMooMoo]

citizenship currently costs approx 1200 when everything has been included (fee, liuk test etc)
it used to be a lot cheaper!
I naturalized a fee months ago, was a very straightforward process as a non eu citizen.
ILR shockingly costs about the same now!

my grandmother remained a german citizen her whole life despite living longer and raising her family in another country!

[sparkysparkysparky]

I don't think it would be sensible to make any assumptions about your status if we vote to leave the EU. That said, permanent residency status should count for something if you have it .

[hedgehogsdontbite]

I've lived in Sweden for years but haven't applied for citizenship. I love it here and am a permanent resident but I don't see myself as Swedish at all. Not even 1% of me. Applying for citizenship would just feel wrong.