to be completely confused about the new childcare scheme for these reasons;

[PlayingHouse]

Firsty The news is saying children aged between 3 and 4 already receive 15 hours a week. DD2 doesn't. She is in a nursery attached to a school and is off every six weeks - including 6 weeks in the summer. Which means that averaged over a year she receives far less than 15 hours a week. Can I put her into a different childcare setting during the holidays to continue receiving her 15 hours? I'm guessing no. Which means this whole scheme is pointless to me - its childcare during the holidays I need help with.

Secondly, How could she receive the supposed 30 hours in the setting she is currently in? Her nursery has morning and afternoon children and neither the room or the staff to have both sets at the same time. Does this mean I could receive the extra 15 hours in a different setting? Wouldn't this just unsettle her even if it was an option.

Next, if I change her to a private nursery, would the 30 hours a week be every week with no breaks for half terms etc?

Finally I work around dh hours. Does this mean we are not entitled to the extra hours as there is always someone alvaliable to look after the children - because of how often they are on holiday.

I think it is 30 hours term time only. My dd will be in a school nursery too and I wondered the same re capacity. Think you will get it as long as you both work but not sure how msny hours. More details will be available tomorrow.

The 15 hrs is term time only because it's supposed to provide education rather than childcare.

I have no idea how settings are going to be able to double the hours.

I think it's for working parents but don't know if it depends on what hours you work. I only work 22hrs so don't actually need 30hrs - have no idea what that means in terms of my entitlement. It's not really clear whether this is another 15hrs education or simply childcare.

It's only going to be term time only. However, some nurseries currently spread the hours over the whole year.

Most nurseries can only just afford to provide the current 15 hours early years education so no idea how the government plan on nurseries offering double that!

And the government need to decide if they want to provide early years education or free childcare. We have long been told the 15 hours isn't childcare it's education but now they seem to be changing their minds?

The current offer is 15 hours per week, term time only. Nurseries are able to offer a reduced number of hours, spread across the whole year.

No details have yet been published regarding how the additional spaces will be provided.

In the school nursery where I work, we already offer flexible places - between 2 and 10 three hour sessions per week, plus wrap around. This is something that other school nurseries are going to have to consider.

I understand that the government is also looking at the rate it currently pays to providers as this is woefully inadequate. Hopefully this will support more private settings to offer an increased number of places at more useful times.

The 15 hours is term time only. It translates to about 11 hours (or one free day) in a private year round setting.

When is the 30 hours coming in? Ds has just turned 2 and I thought that it wouldn't come in until he went to school anyway. (ie typically useless for us! )

Sirzy - I noticed that too. On the gov.uk website, it's called "free childcare" now.

Mumof - some areas will be introducing it in Sept 2016 with the full roll out planned for Sept 2017.

"And the government need to decide if they want to provide early years education or free childcare. We have long been told the 15 hours isn't childcare it's education but now they seem to be changing their minds?"

Yes, indeed.

And it's 15 hours per week for three terms (of 10 weeks each?) per year.

It's been on the news today that the pilot roll out is being brought forwards. I think it'll all go wrong at that point - the last revisions (banning top ups, free at delivery, not in arrears) nearly broke the system. I don't think it's sustainable, really.

In my local authority I think the terms are:

Autumn term - 13 weeks
Spring term - 11 weeks
Summer term - 14 weeks

Which means this whole scheme is pointless to me - its childcare during the holidays I need help with

How is it pointless? You are getting some free childcare through term time which reduces your overall yearly cost surely? Yes, you have to pay in full during holidays but it's cheaper in term time. That's not pointless.

This is the biggest confusion. It was 15 hours free Early Years Education.
Now it's childcare

That's why it's 15 hours per week of term time only. A lot of settings are only open term time.

Queues for nursery places are months long in our area, I've no idea how settings will magically double capacity overnight!

And the change of focus from education to childcare - what impact will that have? Will settings be exempt from 0-5 curriculum for 15 hours a week now?

The Early Years programme was supposed level the playing field for those children that started school behind their peers in learning. If the new 'childcare' is aimed at working parents only, then really the core of children that were supposed to benefit will be missed out of this new 'offer', widening the gap further.

Are the government going to force school nurseries to offer 30 hours? I can't see how it will be possible to simply double the number of hours offered from 3 per day to 6. Am I right in thinking that capacity/floor space is strictly regulated by legislation so won't most school nurseries have to halve the number of children they take in order to double the hours? Will private settings offer places to parents who need childcare when the schools are closed? Surely they can't operate with that much spare capacity and remain profitable?

No way school nurseries here will be able to offer 30 hours, they are over subscribed for the 15 hours and there is no space to expand.

It's a headline grabber that's not been at all clear about the detail (no change there then)

The 15 hours was always supposed to be 15 hrs a week of Early Education Entitlement - so, it's term time only.

The whole campaign being based around "hard working families" (did they have a book running to see who could say it the most times in one day? ) then led them to talking about 'free childcare' kicking in from 2017 (although I understand from today's news they are bringing it forwards a year?)

Even if you do work in the school holidays, or need more than 30hrs a week childcare, you are still getting 30 per week during term time for free so of course it's going to benefit any working parent using childcare - might not make all childcare free, but - if they can actually deliver it which I very much doubt - it will knock 30hrs off the total bill.

The main 4 issues that I can see are
i) that there simply aren't the places available - in my authority, they don't have the capacity to deliver the 15 hrs (+ 2yr funded places), let alone doubling it.

ii)Secondly, they won't support the children with complex needs by providing the Nursery with appropriate funding, so those children are going to end up being discriminated against, unless the Nursery work 1:1 with them and leave all the other dc out of ratio.
iii) Fewer (not more) nurseries are going to offer the funded places, as they struggle to subsidise 15 hrs provision - there's no way they will be able to balance the books if only paid 1/2 fees for 30 hours per week per child.
iv) The Gvmnt have torn apart the support that used to be offered by the LAs - there are nowhere near enough teachers, development workers, Early Years Professionals now to support the staff who work in PVIs - you'd be shocked how poor some provision is (just to be clear, there's also lots of excellent practice).

Unless they look at putting some serious money into this, it's just not going to work.

That's my point Sirzy why would parents choose a school setting at all if they have no childcare options available during the holidays?
Will this mean that working parents who want to use these free 30 hours are restricted to private providers who will offer childcare all year round?

After listening to Pritti Patel talk about this on the radio this morning I am none the wiser. In fairness to her I don't think John Humphries knew what he was talking about either.

I'm confused to about....

...the sudden switch from early years education, to childcare for working parents
....whether the first 15 hours will remain universal and only the additional 15 hours will be available for working parents
.....what is the definition of 'working parents' Both employees, does it included self-employed, part-time workers, seasonal workers, those who only do term time jobs such as Teaching Assistants
....how will this be administered? Through workplace voucher schemes? How does it work now, will it change significantly?
.....how will the provision be met? It took years for providers to gear up for 12.5 hours, then 15 hours. Won't this policy just make waiting lists worse? My local nursery has 6 families apply for each place.
.....why is this policy announcement being led by DWP (Priti Patel) rather than DfE?

MNHQ - you need to get a Govt minister on here to answer these key questions. My guess is, they haven't actually thought about them. The press release today was totally ambiguous.

www.gov.uk/government/news/government-brings-forward-plans-to-double-free-childcare-for-working-families

I was thinking that too Luckystars - it's definitely a topic for a Q&A session, as I suspect MNers will have more, better and more relevant Qs than a radio or TV presenter

both parents have to work to get 30 hours a week.

I thought Pritti Patel came across very poorly this morning - no insightful answers. Agree that JH didn't conduct the best interview either.

I think it is a very poorly thought through policy. End our way (London) the 15 hrs amounts to a small reduction to otherwise very expensive nursery fees for most working parents. Any new nurseries required to increase provision will have huge set up costs. As above, the school nurseries will not be able to simply double the number of places.

Say I'm a commercially unsuccessful artist like Van Gogh, working a 50 hour week but earning very little? How can I prove I'm working?

Will there be scope to use the 30 hours of childcare in after school clubs?

I agree that it's very confusing and there are more questions than answers... I cannot see how this will work personally - it will be 15 hours of early education for families with one parent at home, and 30 hours for families where both parents work?? Is this pro rata if parents work part time?? School nurseries cannot take on this 30 hours as many don't have the facilities... mind you, it's not the first governmental decision which was made without thinking about the actual practicalities and day to day application of the 'promise'.

The school nurseries in my area all offer full time 8.45-3.15 & have done since my now 13 year old was in nursery hence we sent her to a private one as I didn't need or want full time.

Currently providers have to offer flexible, extended childcare over 5 days per week, so technically all providers offering the 15 hours of free childcare are geared up to offer the full number of days in a working week. However, many voluntary run settings offer discrete morning and afternoon sessions that would not add up to 30 hours over the whole week!

The only way I can see this working is to drop staff: child ratios, or perhaps employ lots of people who are currently unemployed in apprenticeship roles and pay them a pittance. This is what has been happening in the Republic of Ireland early years settings.