to be completely confused about the new childcare scheme for these reasons;

[PlayingHouse]

Firsty The news is saying children aged between 3 and 4 already receive 15 hours a week. DD2 doesn't. She is in a nursery attached to a school and is off every six weeks - including 6 weeks in the summer. Which means that averaged over a year she receives far less than 15 hours a week. Can I put her into a different childcare setting during the holidays to continue receiving her 15 hours? I'm guessing no. Which means this whole scheme is pointless to me - its childcare during the holidays I need help with.

Secondly, How could she receive the supposed 30 hours in the setting she is currently in? Her nursery has morning and afternoon children and neither the room or the staff to have both sets at the same time. Does this mean I could receive the extra 15 hours in a different setting? Wouldn't this just unsettle her even if it was an option.

Next, if I change her to a private nursery, would the 30 hours a week be every week with no breaks for half terms etc?

Finally I work around dh hours. Does this mean we are not entitled to the extra hours as there is always someone alvaliable to look after the children - because of how often they are on holiday.

This is precisely why we didn't take up the 15hrs with DD, we needed childcare in the holidays and were very happy with our CM. It would have meant joining a queue for provision at a private nursery who operate the scheme, and total disruption for DD.

In fact DD didn't go to a school nursery either as we couldn't get a place for wrap around care.

There was just such a shortfall of provision where we were and no family backup locally either.

Sadly with the 30 hours provision, if it's only given to parents who both work, how am I going to get back into work without the provision, yet can't access it until I'm working. A bit hypothetical as we don't have an eligible child and neither am I looking for work, but if it's going to be a problem getting a space then how on earth do you make that work with a new job? It all seems a total mess and ill thought out.

Childminders pick up in our area.

School nurseries have better outcomes according to Ofsted.They also said there weren't enough quality places.

I wonder if a two tier system will occur as some families won't be able to forgo the savings and perhaps only the more well off will be able to afford school nursery and childminders.

That said Ofsted did say disadvantaged families should have priority re school nursery places in order to fill the gap. I wonder how that will fit with gov plans.

I wonder if quality isn't going to be a priority anymore.

It's like these been operating the new scheme for the past 10 years.

I actually disagreed with the lack of choice (I didn't want my 3 year old in full time nursery when I only worked part time) so I put them into private but then only got my 15 hours free (I was using 3 x 6.5 hr days. )

PlayingHouse, currently you get a subsidy of X amount to cover 15 hours per week for 40 weeks Early Years Education.
After (if?) this scheme is introduced, you will get 2X nursery grant to cover 30 hours per week for 40 weeks.
Am I correct in surmising that at present you do not pay for your nursery place at all (because it is a state school nursery place you're using), therefore, you see no actual 'money'?
If you used a private nursery provider, the '15 hours for 40 weeks' cost would be knocked off your bill. You aren't paying for childcare at present, so you aren't billed.
Have I got that right?
I presume at present your DD is attending part time (i.e. 2.5 school days, or 5 mornings or 5 afternoons per week)?

You could switch to a private nursery for those 15 hours... except that no private provider can actually provide solely 15 hours (in my experience) as staffing costs are greater than the government subsidy. So you would actually be expected to pay for a whole morning session, i.e. top-up the 15 hours to 20 (for example).
However, if you were working full time, and used a private nursery, you would then get a subsidy of 30 hours cost (times 40 weeks), meaning the top-up cost to you would be 20 hours care (on a weekly basis for 40 weeks, 50 hours for the other 12 weeks). That would be much more affordable on a full time salary, surely?

By the time this scheme gets off the ground, I imagine your DD will have started school in any case!

Well that was my question in the OP, will school nurseries be expected to offer 30 hours and if so, how will they manage this?

I work in a school nursery. We offer all day care but limited to 15 hours. We have 50 children in total, so about 25 per session.
If we have to offer 30 hours then we can only accommodate 25 children in total. So half the number of places.

Not to mention that nursery children doing a 30 hour week will be doing longer days than children in school.

I don't think that this is going to affect a huge number of children in school/term time only nurseries.

If th 30 hour offering is only eligible to families where both parents work full time, then I can think of only about 15 families out of 55 in the nursery where I work, who would be affected. If it's based on one parent working full time and one parent working part time, then there are quite a few more (about another 20).

Wales doesn't even get 15 hours so I'm guessing the 30 hours won't apply here either - it doesn't affect me as a sahm but think it's going to cause some problems.

why would parents choose a school setting at all if they have no childcare options available during the holidays?

A large proportion of the children at our preschool (attached to a school, open 9-3 in term times), are picked up and droped off by childminders or nannies, who will be providing childcare before and after preschool hours, and during holidays.

If both parents need to work in order to access the 30 hours then surely this will also affect the educational opportunities of those most disadvantaged who would otherwise be sitting watching Cbeebies all day. If the 30 hours is educational then it will increase the disparity - those with an engaged SAHP will get 15 hours plus time baking ingredients, learning letters and doing craft activities yeah well on a good day , those with two parents working full time will get 30 hours of education. Those with parents who don't both work full time but also don't have the skills to enable their children to learn successfully will be trapped in the middle.

Maybe it is supposed to be nearly impossible to access either because both parents aren't working enough verifiable hours before applying for funding, there aren't enough willing providers or there aren't enough places available. Sounds popular in theory but won't actually cost much as few people take up 30 hours.

Ivybean I would not take a blind bit of notice of what Ofsted say. They are too politically biased to comment impartially.
Ofsted and the Government want young children in schools and childminders in agencies for no other reason than it's cheaper for them. Therefore they praise up the school nurseries and and disparage the childminders.

Right now, it's the Children's Centres that are under attack. They have been chronically starved of funds and are being rated poorly by Ofsted. They are being closed at a shocking rate.
Some were sold off to private nursery chains. Millions of taxpayers money was used to create state of the art facilities for young children, and they sold it to line the pockets of entrepreneurs and big businesses

People should be raging about this waste of taxpayers money and the utter waste in setting up unwanted childminder agencies. No wonder they can't afford to fund the free entitlement!

Completely agree tanith.

At DD's school nursery you got one session (morning or afternoon) free. You could then opt to pay for lunchtime and the opposite session. This was limited to 8 extra children per session and the nursery employed an extra staff member to cover this. So under the new scheme these 16 children would get all their nursery provision free (but presumably still pay for lunch). Of course that would restrict the numbers of DC who could take up 30 free hours, but tbh, if you work full time, school nursery hours are rubbish for you anyway so I can't imagine loads more people would be wanting to send their DC.

I absolutely hate the idea of dropping at childminder who then takes DC to school nursery...it's so backwards and forwards for the children. I'd rather use private nursery who can provide wraparound and just pay for the extra. Surely increasing school nursery places which provide 30 hours free but with the ability to top up to full days would be much more useful for working parents as well as beneficial for children, and providing a way for the state to make some money back?

As it is my DS is in a private nursery which has a preschool room with qualified EY teachers. This works well for us but I wonder if he is missing out from not attending school nursery or freestanding preschool. I just find it hard enough dropping him off and going to work without knowing he would then get dragged round town to another setting in the day.

Some childminders offer the free education themselves, Brian. Some childminders are qualified EYPs and EYTs in their own right.

Some have higher grades and qualifications than the nurseries.

I wonder if 30 hours is deliberately mapping the school day so parents address the issue of wraparound care prior to DC starting school. Also will the new proposals not work better if there are older siblings already in after school care?