To think that women in domestic violence situations deserve more understanding and compassion

[ReallyTired]

A nasty goady thread was quite rightly deleted. It is sad as the topic of "why women do not leave violent men" is a reasonable topic to discuss. I know that this is a thread about a thread, but please mumsnet don't delete it.

I have started this thread in hope that it will educate and maybe give more support and information to those in a domestic violence situation. Please be kind as the experience of domestic violence takes years to recover from.

I experienced domestic violence at 19 years old. It took me six weeks to get out of the relationship. It was easy for me as I had no children and people around me to support me. However my mental health has never fully recovered. I still experience flashbacks 21 years later of having a broken piece of glass held to my throat. During the six weeks of violence I was experiencing a nervous breakdown.

To answer the goady post question.
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Why do women not leave their partners? ...

Stockholmn syndrome

Women in such a situation are mentally and physically battered. They find it hard to think and often are suffering from severe depression or post traumatic stress. The abuser often systematically cuts off the victim from family and friends who can help, and can be very controlling financially. I think it must take a hell of a lot of courage to leave a house with a small baby in winter with no money and nothing but the clothes you are standing up in. (Even if your confidence has not been dented.) Occassionally there can be language barriers that making accessing help difficult. Councils are not good about rehoming women who are fleeing from domestic violence.

I think for me the problem was always the feeling of worthlessness and failure. Everything about my relationship told me how pathetic and useless I was, I knew it was abusive but at least he loved me and no one else would.

How could I tell anyone about the things that had happened without admitting to yet another instance of me being weak? of having failed as an adult (my first time living away from home), as a parent, as a girlfriend, and without telling anyone there was no one to ask for help.

I had my DD very young and my family's attitude towards my pregnancy was very much 'you've made your bed' and so I felt like that was it - I had to lie in it.

In the end I got out because of my DD, he was hurting me in front of her and she was scared (she was 2 at the time) and I thought that whatever the concequences I couldn't do it anymore - that was 5 years in though.

Leaving is really hard, especially when it feels like there's no where else to go. I actually tried to leave a couple of times before I finally got out for good.

I remember being sat in a homeless families hostel having spent the evening being sexually harassed by some idiot who's poor wife had been taken into hospital, I had none of my stuff and hardly any of DD'S just a couple of teddy's - one of them played a song and I kept playing it for her (she would have been maybe 6 months at the time) to distract her and I was so lonely and sad and the stupid song kept making me cry. When ex showed up having tracked us down with promises of everything being better I was desperate to believe him, to go back to my warm house and not be alone and for him to be kind to me because when he wanted to be he really could be. If he was a twat all the time I'd never have been there to start with.

I should add - it was a long time ago now, 13 years or so and I have a lovely DH these days .

I have to see ex about once a year and I get flashbacks and anxiety around it but only a couple more years until DD is an adult and I need never see him again.

In my own experience, the Police and other agencies are now way more sympathetic and understanding of different forms of abuse ie : psychological, emotional, financial. During my marriage, my husband had an horrific temper and while he did once push me down the stairs, that was a one-off. However, he did take his anger out on objects...smashing things, holes in walls, once throwing an entire fireplace out into the garden right in front of his parents while our baby son was crawling on the floor. Latterly, after he left me having started an affair, he assaulted me in front of our then toddler son. The Police and other agencies have been fantastic and supportive. The impact of the other forms of abuse that he has inflicted on us has been horrendous, particularly for my eldest child who was eventually referred to CAMHS. It is those I will always struggle to come to terms with. I have had a lucky escape and I am slowly rebuilding my life and that of my children. Somebody else has all his "issues" now...unfortunately a child involved in his "current" set up. Domestic violence of all types can destroy your soul. I won't let it destroy mine.

For me the problem was that I cared for him. A huge part of you can't believe their behaviour but you still care for them and when they are not being abusive all feels normal so you just want to sweep it under the carpet. I couldn't bare the thought of him hurt and missing me because it seemed that he did love me but I realise now I was projecting my own heart and feelings of loss onto a person who by nature didn't feel or experience love like I did. I always knew I would leave him and I finally did. It broke my heart to think of him feeling my loss but he got over it pretty quick once his stupid pride calmed down. So I realise he wasn't built like me. I felt huge relief to move on with my life once I was sure he was ok but always feel sorry for the next person to be his partner. So its complicated. It's hard to see someone you care about destroying the important things in their life so you try to stay and help them. That was my experience.

Thank you for starting this thread. I have often wondered about this, so will be watching with interest!

I'm glad you posted this. I'm absolutely in favour of reasoned discussion on this matter. A lot of people tend (often without realising this is what they are doing) to view DV survivors in a way that is quite 'othering' - as in, 'not like me'. It's easier to believe that you could leave if you wanted to, that it must be someone's fault, etc. A while ago I heard some people talking about how women who stay are stupid and I said: "Wouldn't it be awful if they weren't stupid? Wouldn't it be awful if they were just like you?"

This topic was already on my mind because, the other day, someone I know expressed concern about a family member who hasn't left their abusive partner. "You can't fathom why they stay, can you?" she asked. That felt really shit, because she was evidently assuming that I didn't have personal experience; you shouldn't really assume that, ever, about anyone, plus it triggered the same feelings of invisibility and aloneness as I had while I was with my ex, who treated me like absolute shit while telling everyone else how badly I treated him. This all came out when he left me.

As I explained to the person above, it's not just Stockholm Syndrome (which you effectively acquire once you are in a relationship). For some of us, the damage was done earlier; you can't assume that everyone else truly understands, deep down, that they do not have to live with abuse, that they are allowed to leave, that it is not their fault. My mother taught me that you do. not. leave. I really believed that I couldn't, because it was so deeply ingrained.

I also didn't really know what was normal and okay, even though I thought I did. Like many children who have grown up in dysfunctional families, I believed that if someone else felt something negative then it must be my fault; I thought I was responsible for keeping everyone else happy. And my mum spent so much time excusing my dad's behaviour: he was just tired, he was just stressed, just let it wash over you, don't antagonise him, that I got used to it. How was I supposed to learn anything different when that was my childhood?

And there can also be a form of dissociation involved: to actually survive in a DV situation, whether it is emotional, physical, sexual, financial, or any combination of the above, you have to hide the truth from yourself or you would go mad. You can't quite see how bad it is while you're in it, so the feelings go in a box. I only learned that I had lived in terror years later, when I started having panic attacks and feeling the feelings I'd put away.

When you're in the cycle of abuse, you do not know your own mind and you can't think straight; even if you start to see sense, your partner will be able to mess with your mind and undo it. The other point to make is that women whose partners are physically violent are in the most danger right after they leave.

Pink I'm glad you mentioned that dissociation, I'd forgotten about it but I identify with that very strongly. I was very talented at shutting off certain emotions and minimising things so that the worst instances of violence felt very unreal to me. Looking back there was a lot of incongruity in the things I did - I remember being bruised all down the back of my legs in stripes, from landing on something stepped when being thrown across the room - but instead of acknowledging any of the negatives about this I joked with ex about the pattern looking like zebra stripes.

Obviously that was self protection but the ability to do that required a separation of the injury from the assault in my head as though the assault hadn't really happened to me and I'd just woken up with this funny pattern on my skin.

I think people forget that abusive men aren't abusive all the time - that's the key to the abuse really, you feel bad for making them act in a way that's out of character and you try and fix it so they can go back to being their usual nice selves again, not realising that the nice self was the fake all along and no matter what you give up or how hard you work the nice self will never hang around for good - just for long enough to hook you back in to hoping that this time things have changed.

I feel that there are lot of myths surrounding domestic abuse/ violence. For example the assumption that it happens to uneducated people in low income families. Both abusers and victims come from all different walks of life.

Pinkmagnums My parents were not abusive to each other. Certainly my family was not dysfuctional in that kind of way. I agree that Stockholm sydrome is not the only reason that people stay in abusive relationships. I feel that gaslighting really messes with people's heads.

I feel that society blames the victim rather than the abuser. It would be really interesting to know what makes someone abusive. My ex had lovely parents and my ex father called the police on his own son when he witnessed me being punched. He also physically intervened inspite of being an elderly man.
My ex had lovely sibblings as well so I don't believe that parenting turned him into an abusive toerag.

Every domestic abuse situation is different. I cannot pretend to fully to understand what someone else is going through.

Really I think those myths can also make it easier for people to minimise / harder for people to leave. They can tell themselves that it's not like they're a beaten wife - like their husband is spending all the benefits money at the pub and then coming home and giving them a black eye, they're nothing like that. They have good jobs and just get into bad rows and just because DH is careful with money and gets upset because they're wasteful and always buying new clothes for the kids when they could make do with the old stuff (it's only a bit tatty, shouldn't have asked for the money really) it's not like it's abusive is it? he only lashed out that one time and he didn't mean to...

Or equally it gives them the fear they won't be believed - domestic abuse doesn't happen to people like me, everyone loves DH, he has a responsible job, pillar of the community, no one will believe me if I say he abuses me and I need to get away.

Talking about the myths is important.

Fwiw my background is very middle class, no history of domestic abuse in my family although they can be slightly emotionally stunted at times.

Interesting thread, marking place.

Thank you for a helpful and very neccessary thread.
Good post from Pinkmagnums - (love them by the way - a eating several a week!) - the question - "What if they were just like you?" is crucial. I have been in an abusive, but not violent, relationship but I only admit it here. In real life it doesn't happen to "women like me". It isn't serious and we don't live together but I see him - and I know.

Mandatory - also very good at pointing out that the abuser is nice for much of the time - that is how he controls people. And your point about wanting to :- "go back to my warm house and not be alone and for him to be kind to me because when he wanted to be he really could be. If he was a twat all the time I'd never have been there to start with. - is fundamental to understanding.

Abusers are almost like Jimmy Salville they know how to be charming to people outside the house. Its often the case the victim's family or the abuser's family do not believe that the man they love is capable of such behaviour.

Here are some of the myths. Interestingly high income domestic violence victims are less likely to admit what is going on. There is a lot of shame surrounding a common problem.

www.womensafe.org/myths-realities-of-domestic-violence/

domestic violence knows no class boundaries

OP.

My sister has been a victim of domestic abuse twice. The first time her partner never ever laid a hand on her, it was all emotional... she suffers the consequences of this abuse to this very day. Her second partner it was all physical... SS made her go on a freedom course and he did intensive work on his violence. 4 years on and they are happier than I've seen anyone. It t9ok the freedom course for her to fully understand what her first partner had done to her... im ashamed to admit I didn't see her as a victim until I did a recognising da course through work. People need more education and understanding that da isn't always physical violence and that abusers are very good at keeping their victims close. Its only with hindsight that I see how hard it was for my sister to escape her fist partner.
Not sure what my point is... just wanted to say that I was once one of the "just leave them" brigade until I actually had education on it.

I left my abusive and violent relasionship ten years ago. I now have the life I always dreamed of.

It took me five years to walk out. Dd1 wrapped in a quilt and in to a taxi to my grandmothers.

I didn't realise I was in an abusive relationship. My mother and step fathers relastionship was very toxic so I thought it was normal. When the violence started - about two years in, I'd lost all my friends. My ex either turned me against them or they were that exasperated with my staying with ex they left me to it. Most if my family went like this too except my grandmother as we both wouldnt give that up. Sometimes id nip to the shop and phone her from a phone box as I wasn't allowed a phone.

I stayed because my self esteem was so low, because he made me think it was my fault he was hitting me and smashing the house to pieces. His mother even blamed one time on grief of his grandmother passing when he strangled me.

I knew I wanted/needed to go for a long time and when I got there in my head I went. It took a long time because I was broken biscuits and I needed to claw back the old me to get the strength back. That was tough.

My grandmother was great. I knew her door was always open. That she was waiting for me. If I was to offer support to anyone in this situation, I wouldn't judge, I would keep in as much contact with who ever it was as much as possible. Id discuss and show escape plans - if they wanted it. I wouldn't force them to leave as it's likely they will go back as I did several times before I went for good.

to all the women who were able to do this. It takes strength

I had an abusive childhood, then when I met my ex and he started being so (as I thought at the time ) protective towards me, he made me feel safe. In reality I was a teenager, he was in his 30s and groomed me. I got pregnant quickly and from that point on I felt trapped. Every time I thought about leaving, or got a bit of a life outside of him, he would convince me to get pregnant again.

I knew no different, I thought this is what love was.

It took me 15 years to break away from him, I am now living in a refuge miles away and have had no contact with him for the duration of my stay.

Weirdly it's still my instinct to pick up the phone to call him when anything happens though, it's a hard habit to break, but the women here have been amazing and I am so much stronger now than I was when I came here.

When I left I left in the middle of the night with nothing at all apart from my kids and some clothes, it was terrifying, but not as terrifying as staying.

I have been judged for not leaving sooner, I've also been judged for not staying. I know I messed up and made poor choices, I didn't know any better really, all I know is I'm doing my best for myself and my children now. I thought I was doing the best by my children by staying too, but as it turns out he doesn't care about them and they hate him.

It's easy to sit back from an ignorant viewpoint and question 'why', the reality is that when you are in the midst of it you can't see what's happening, it's only when you get out and look back you can see what's truly happened.

I actually have no idea why my ex was abusive. He was a compulsive liar as well. He claimed it was all because his parents got divorced. What bollocks...

I wasn't meaning to imply that everyone who experiences domestic abuse comes from an abusive home, it's just that there is a known correlation.

I have been a domestic violence consultant for over 2 decades,I have had several books on the subject published and they are used in educating other professionals. I was part of a group that piloted the intervention partnerships.

4 years ago I left my husband and obtained lifetime protection orders against him.

We at that point had been together almost 9 years.

I didn't leave sooner for the exact same reasons that most women don't,

There is an interesting teaching tool that shows the steps an abuser takes to abuse, those methods are incredibly effective and can work even if you have spent decades studying the subject

Peter Harvie a lecturer (if not yet retired) at the university of Westminster used to run one of the only post graduate courses in domestic abuse intervention.

Fascinating man who I belive off the top of my head was married to another lecturer in the same field. Firmly believes and I listened to him many times talking about it,that its a crock of shit that most abusers were abused themselves, he used to say that a lot of the studies were done in prisons or probation services and the interviews thought saying they had been gave them some type of get out clause

He was incredibly convincing

I stayed with my abuser. We were going to be together for ever as I couldn't leave. Unfortunately he left me. I wish he hadn't. I'm glad he did.

OP sorry I killed your thread. I'll close the door on the way out and not darken the thread again

Mistakes

I am sure you haven't killed my thread. I suspect that many people have just been busy putting kids to bed. Anyway all threads do run their natural course.

I feel that many posters have been really brave sharing their experience. certainly I have learnt a lot. Thank you everyone.

I stayed because I was scared that if I left he'd then have unsupervised access to the dc and that wouldn't be safe for them. It was only when he's gone to prison for something unrelated to me that I then felt safe enough to report him to the police for hurting me.