To think that a 23k benefits cap will drive some families in the SE

[Minifingers9]

... Into destitution?

I live in a pretty unappealing and comparatively cheap part of greater London but you can't get a 3 bedroom rental for under £1400 a month.
If we lost our jobs we wouldn't be able to live on 23k a year as a family of 5. Not when 15k of it was going on rent.
Why don't they have regional benefit caps?

Well whatever floats your boat. We are comfortably off and manage to spend a lot of family time together, depends what your priorities are. Money is not the most important thing to me.

I AM the working poor

no I don't think any cap is justified

I don't have an actual issue with there being a benefits cap. What I do have an issue with is that it isn't proportionate for various regions. If life goes bad for a family and they live in the south East then they have a choice of staying put or upping sticks and moving. This conveniently doesn't allow for. the fact that they may have support structures and a life locally, they may have responsibility to other family members who need them to remain in the area etc.

Now they may be able to find other work but they may not. Nust what do you do if you are in this situation and cannot move away. It ends up with you waiting for eviction unless you are lucky enough to find another job pretty damn quick. Fine to have a benefits cap....but make it regional so that people have a fighting chance of surviving,

Any cap at all? No upper limit at all?

Why?

Is it right that in extreme circumstances you can potentially earn substantaily more than the adveradge wage and not be held to the same societal pressures that everyone else has to follow?

Personally speaking although I have no issue with a benefits cap (adjusted for regions) it equally would not bother me if it didn't exist, I susoect the Govt are saving very little money and this is an ideological thing.

I have a habit of disappearing when I am ill and DD is ill. It's called real life. Am hardly one to shy from a debate on MN

But gratefulhead when I was 21 I moved to London away from all my support structures and had to make my own way. I never had an iota of help from family because of it. The reason I had to do that was because there was no work in my home town, just beyond "the counties".

I expect the runaways at Kings Cross who have been brutalised by their abusive and / or addicted families could all do as well if they weren't so bloody lazy.

Check your privilege.

The problem with regional benefits is that it would increase disparity between regions even more.

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/the-poorest-part-of-london-is-wealthier-than-the-richest-parts-of-northern-ireland-and-wales-10282077.html

And if Iirc HB is already worked out on a regional basis.

why - because it's not needed

it's so easy to say 'get a job' come and meet some of my emotionally fucked, mentally ill, neglected, unable to read, criminal record holding, care leaving 16 year old sofa surfers

it's shows a complete lack of understanding of the complexity of life to think if you keep reducing benefits everyone will get a job

lives can be hard and chaotic and disordered

I moved to London at 17 for the same reasons Beau x

Actually, most of my friends who went to London to find work post-degree were able to claim housing benefit. Now, they are all paying large amounts of tax, happy to, but up in arms that the government is widening the gap.

Did you have a family member you were caring for? Did you have children who were settled and coping well? At 21 and without any or many responsibilities of course you can move away. I have worked in various places all over the country....I just upped sticks and moved from the age of 18 onwards? I am now 49 and with an autistic child.....my support is local, I also care for another person locally (family member). The benefits cap does not affect me but if it did I'd be utterly screwed quite honestly...and so would my DS plus the family member I care for as neither of them can just "up and move" wi out considerable distress and challenges.

However I do admit I used to invest more in discussion on MN. Then realised I was spending ages trying to argue with people who would never change and wasting energy. So don't do it as much.

exactly Fanjo x break off have wine - fuck it x

Yes ghosty ..good plan. I know you speak the truth but some people will never see it

I actually think this Govt is even more right wing than the Thatcher years. I can remember lots of people claiming God knows how many benefits at the time. All are now high earners but they got their start by claiming whatever they could....and funnily enough I don't remember there being too much outcry about it at the time,

Now it appears to be a crime to claim anything...including DLA and Carers Allowance judging by some responses in this thread. That makes me despair for humanity quite honestly.

There but for the grace of God.....I woukd like everyone to remember that that are one accident or serious illness away from being in the same position. There is not a magic crystal ball (or if there is then mine is faulty), nobody is immune. Life can be going along lovely and then,...bang....in a flash it all changes. Remember that.

Am out of here to join ghosty and fanjo with the

Reading this article gives the other side to the Daily Mail. There are others on the site as well, the one about single mothers is particularly harrowing.
www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/rebecca-omoniraoyekanmi/how-to-lose-your-home-why-are-so-many-people-being-evicted-in-coa

From the posts I've read, people seem to think it is easy just to relocate, but if you are in social/affordable housing and receiving some housing benefit then it becomes very difficult and this applies to those on low incomes too. Private landlords are warey, you need deposits. We don't have enough social housing there is less being built, and more being sold off. You have to build up arrears and get evicted in many cases before you can get help. There's moving costs as well.

lives can be hard and chaotic and disordered

That isn't in any way unique to the unemployed, also your making assumptions with regards to who I mix with.

You haven't really given a reasoned response as to why this cap is unreasonable, no one is saying just get a job, however asking them to live on the same wage as a slightly below adveredage couple and to have the same societal pressures that many face daily such as moving area isn't going to cause destitution.

Empathy is multi faceted, sometimes difficult topics need to be addressed.

Wow all these people who have support! I never had an iota of support from anyone. I like others on the thread had to move hundreds of miles from all family members to find work so never even had one night baby sitting a year from family and we yes the workers have to work very hard to ensure those who work part time or not at all are allowed to stay near family when we aren't? It's just one law for the benefits claimants and a harder life for the rest of us. No wonder there is such massive support for the benefits cap which has affected about 50, 000 families so far so no not vast and nothing like our biggest issue of how to keep paying pensions for 30 year retirement for people who paid NI for 40 years in the expectation of that pension when there are not enough workers to fund such long retirements.

Right nearly 11pm. I was at my desk around 7 so quite a long day but I'm sure all those benefits claimants I support are very grateful for my efforts and as I want to get to my desk for around 6.30 if I can better get to bed. Onwards and upwards.

My home town to become the preserve of the well off and fuck everyone else?

London is my home town too, yet I seem to have an entirely different view of it.

You seem to have turned it into Monaco on Thames in your mind, in order to win an argument.

It is impossible to justify subsidising people on benefits to live in expensive areas when working families can't afford to live in those areas. Where do you draw the line. Should the wealthy in Chelsea, Mayfair etc, who fall upon hard times be allowed to rent a flat in Chelsea or Mayfair at £10K a month paid for by the taxpayer. What if they are used to a river view, should they have to give that up? Maybe we should just put them up in Claridges if they are used to shopping on Bond St.

Utterly preposterous.

Is it a coincidence that there are far more people actively opting for the benefits lifestyle now that it covers so much more than the basics?

Is it a coincidence that there are far more "disabled" than ever before with plenty of spurious sounding conditions that wouldn't have held them back from working before the disability benefits became significantly higher than others?

I'm sure this view will go down a treat on here where I'm sure to be accused.d of bashing all disabled people which I am clearly not doing at all.

oh do fuck off and go fill in a DLA form
then come back and say that shite.

(MNHQ BEFORE YOU DELET ME LOOK AT YOUR
THISIS MY CHILD CAMPAIGN)