Being clever vs being nice

[Albadross]

I wrote this once already and lost it maybe I should've taken that as a sign - I'm not an everyday MNer, but I've noticed a few threads in the past couple of days where people are calling others 'unintelligent' as if it were deserving of punishment to not know everything all the time.

AIBU to think that being decent to others and endeavouring to be nice (especially when you are intelligent) is much more desirable?

Fair enough if someone fully understands every side of an argument and is just being a dick about it, but the beauty of the internet is that you get to learn through debate with a much wider group of people that IRL - that helps solidify knowledge to then be used intelligently to benefit. Hopefully it also means greater empathy through seeing it from different points of view.

I'm not claiming to be perfect just in case anyone thinks that - I'm pretty sure I've been guilty of this when I've been annoyed at my inability to make the case for something I believe. Maybe it's one of those things that's much easier to see from the outside when you're not directly involved.

It feels similar to when people say someone is 'unhinged' or another term that denotes mental illness. I'm just not sure it's actually ok to criticise someone on the basis of their IQ particularly.

I get your point but if you have someone shouting the odds and acting in a Hopkins-esque way in the face of majority wisdom then the only possible conclusion to be drawn is that they are thick and should go away and educate themselves. If you just don't like a poster's argument then it's not ok to call them unintelligent - unless the opinion is truly unintelligent i.e racist, disablist etc. So I can quite see where it would, in my opinion, be ok.

No reason why you can't endeavour to be basically decent to others and keep yourself informed about things going on around you.
I suppose it really depends what you mean by clever. All people aren't equally educated.
As far as nice goes I try to behave with basic decency but I find it difficult sometimes to be pleasant to judgmental arse holes.

Of course being a nice person is preferable to being a clever dick.

There's plenty of goady twats prepared to name call when it suits them, it says more about them don't you think?

If someone thinks it's OK to call someone else unintelligent in the circumstances you describe, then they are probably not that clever themselves!

I was sort of more thinking that we shouldn't use intelligence as a stick - you can't really help your IQ, even with education.

This is very simplistic and uneducated of me, but I think of the brain in terms of hardware and software. The hardware is the native intelligence you are born with and develop in your very early years. Nobody should be criticised for not having much of this, just given plenty of chances through education and nurture to develop it better.

The software is the thought patterns, beliefs and education that we choose to take on when we are old enough to make decisions about ourselves.

I have known people who are by no means academically bright, but deal with life and people in a thoughtful, considered way. I have also known very clever people who are utterly uneducated about basic stuff, and come across as bigoted and thick.

Not sure what I am trying to say really, except that I kind of know what you mean, I think

I think I mean (and I'm a bit unsure how to describe this properly too!) that intelligence isn't something we can change - like having a disability (it's also a disability really) or being whatever race or gender you are, so it shouldn't be used as a derogatory term.

Yes, I agree really. It's okay to tell people they need to learn more about something so that they can see both points of view, but not okay to just call them unintelligent.

I reckon you should endeavour to be both. It's not really native intelligence/IQ I'm talking about here, but keeping yourself informed, seeking opportunities to educate yourself.

My mother is exactly what you are advocating. She's lovely, a truly 'nice' person. But she's not that intellectually engaged and often her view of the world is very simplistic. I wish she would seek to educate herself a bit more and not rely on simply being a nice person (though obvs I wouldn't want her to lose that).

I used to work in an academic environment so was constantly surrounded by people who were a lot cleverer than me, I don't think any of them ever used that as a stick!

I'm just making the same point as before, really, but in my experience people who react in quite an aggressive way, and start calling other people unintelligent, tend to be people who are nowhere near as clever as they like to think, and are a bit afraid of being found out.

Apart from anything else, a good education should include lessons in good manners...

I agree with AnyRailway and LaurieM, although I struggle with people who are happy to be ignorant. I haven't watched it for years, but I mean people like contestants on Big Brother who are happy to boast they have no idea who the prime minister is. Or people who are happy to be misinformed (sorry for generalizations, but I'm kind-of talking about UKIP voters).

This is probably wrong of me, and I need to think about this, but on the internet, I find myself making judgements about people who use terrible grammar and can't spell. I don't mean typos, or auto correct, or even drunk, but "there" instead of "their" or "pacific" instead of "specific".

But, like AnyR, I've worked with very, very intelligent people who've had almost no education. Their intelligence usually shines through (or do I mean "throw"? ).

Good point OP.

I agree YANBU and personally would not wish to attach labels of any kind to another person no matter how heated the argument.

But then I am a person who cannot get worked up over an argument with strangers on the internet anyway, they are not my friends or family so why should it matter very much. Speaking personally, of course, no issue brought to my attention by a stranger would make me want to call them a name but in RL it is different some how and I probably would feel upset and angry to hear my friends or family make ignorant sweeping statements and may argue back heatedly and respond accordingly, not here though, I just don't feel the need to get that emotional on here, the scope of humanity on these boards is so wide we are bound to disagree at times.

No need for name calling IMO.

I don't think it's right to say that being nice is more important or desireable than being intelligent society needs a balance of both. And it is possible to be both intelligent and nice, which would be most desireable if anything.

If you lack in either department it would be good to be aware of it. I think the problem in debate comes when people have no idea that they are lacking in understanding and therefore continiue to argue something that doesn't make sense, rather than just arguing a different but equally valid viewpoint.

But lacking in understanding, or being misinformed, is completely different to being unintelligent. You can be informed, but you can't be given intelligence.

I'm not saying we don't need intelligent people, of course we do, all I'm saying is that calling someone out on something they have no control over is not a nice thing.

Also yes of course you can be both intelligent and nice.

The point is that just because someone else is less intelligent (or you judge them to be) doesn't make it ok to be horrible to them/about them etc.

So if I had the choice between being intelligent but horrible to others who are less so, or less intelligent but a decent human being with consideration for others, I'd probably choose the latter.

Of course in no way do I mean I think this is a choice people ever have to make! But those who have intelligence should inform others as far as possible, rather than striking them off as 'thick'.

I find that on Mumsnet people are often accused of being unintelligent when their views (especially on politics or feminism) don't concur with the most vocal and vocifierous group on the thread. It's a sneery put-down; you don't share our opinions therefore we deduce that you must be of low intelligence.

Surely the ideal is to discuss issues in their own right rather than making it about the person who holds a particular opinion. The cleverness or niceness of a person doesn't prove anything about whether their opinion is correct or justified.

I think that the usage of 'unintelligent' to which you're referring, OP, is really shorthand for 'uninformed', rather than 'low IQ'.

I struggle with people who are complacent about their own ignorance of important issues - posters who accepted and parroted the gay marriage referendum 'no' campaign's misinformation, for instance, when there was a vast amount of correct factual information available on all possible media. A minority seem to shrug and say 'Oh, I'm not clever enough for that kind of thing', as though it lets them off the hook in terms of knowing about and participating in the world, and I think that's unforgivable, especially if you then bring up children with the same zero intellectual curiosity.

And the nice vs clever thing is a false dichotomy, just as much as the 'would you rather be beautiful or clever?' choice little girls used to pose one another, as though one precluded the other.

The point is that just because someone else is less intelligent (or you judge them to be) doesn't make it ok to be horrible to them/about them etc.

No, it doesn't. I think you have a good point, but going by your logic, no one should call someone else heartless or similar in a derogatory way, because some people have genuine issues that make it almost impossible for them to empathise or by sympathetic to something that they don't understand.

So perhaps while we shouldn't use intelligence as a stick, we shouldn't use kindness or someone's ability to empathise either.

I agree OP. You can't help your basic intelligence - all you can do is try to educate yourself the best you can. However kindness is a choice - it may not come as naturally to some as to others, but you can choose how you treat people.

You could argue if you're brighter you know better how to be nice actually due to your IQ and understanding!

I certainly agree we should all treat others as we want them to treat us and that's a main thing I try to pass on to all the children (as well as my mensa level IQ and stellar exam results of course... laughing as I type...)

Whiteshirt I meant low IQ as opposed to ill informed - when people call someone else thick because they don't know the intricacies of something. I've seen it in a lot of quite odd threads that have derailed in the most bizarre ways recently. I had a different title before, it was quite tough to think of one line so it perhaps came across not as intended.

Ptolemy yes I agree - I think we're assuming that there'd be some indicators of it just being someone being an arsehole

Sorry - using the app so keep having to go back to see who said what

Whiteshirt I don't really mean it's one or the other, it's more than people assume being cleverer than someone else means they don't have to be nice to them iyswim? There's been a lot of it going on. Most of it seemed to involve one poster who had NC actually...