To cancel swimming via of pooey pants?

[JesusIsComingLookBusy]

DS1 is 6 and still having lots of toilet accidents. He wets himself about 4 or 5 times a week and wears pyjama nappies at night. Last few days though we've had some pooey pants too and today is particularly bad. He's on his third pair. I've reminded him to go a few times when it's obvious he needs to but he's ignored me. We are meant to be going swimming this afternoon but I'm cancelling it primarily in case he has a tummy bug (poo looks normal though) but also as I think he needs to realise he needs to be a bit more proactive. Am I being mean?

I know I'm just repeating what other posters have said here, but it's likely this child has got some kind of mild medical issue, like chronic constipation which is resulting in soiling and wetting. It is not uncommon.

OP, I know you are trying your best here, but I strongly recommend that you take him to a medical specialist in bowel/bladder issues. It is likely that the problem will be fixed when the medical issue is fixed.

This is more emotionally connected than physical, it's common.

Don't punish, encourage him to go. Find something he wants and encourage him to earn it by doing poos in the loo.

I had to pay mine a pound a poo. Pretty much worked. I tried little toys etc and that was mildly successful, money was the most successful though

I know how awful it is, but he WILL grow out of it eventually, with support and help. He needs to loosen the poo as it goes hard when withheld, but then it's a case of helping him lose the fear of letting go.

Little frogs really wasn't being judgemental, she's clearly worn the same shirt as you are wearing now.

We didn't go to the doctors but it really was the next step, and DS knew this, but didn't want to go. It's taken a long time and sometimes he has a little mess, but mostly he's ok.

He has the most enormous poos tho, so I try to encourage him to go more often to give the muscles a chance to recover

Dunno if I'm doing the right thing... Any advice here would be of enormous help to me and others here I dare say.

The wetting and soiling pattern sounds very much to me like constipation. The one impacts on the the other. If he is having a bad day with soiling then yes I would cancel the swimming because if you spend long in the water the chances are he will soil in his swimming trunks and there won't be anything he can do to stop it but I would stress to him that you will go another day, perhaps even tomorrow if he manages a poo tonight so you know you'll be fairly "low risk" tomorrow.

Ds1 is 8 and struggled for a long time. Medications got us reasonably regular but even now we have to make sure he sits on the loo for a poo after dinner every evening otherwise he will go back to soiling and will wet himself (pressure on bladder form overloaded bowels).

Do look at ERIC, it is a great resource.

My DS is much younger but suffers from this too. Please take him to another GP and get him some medication. These problems can take a long time and a lot of patience to sort out. He needs your help with this it doesn't mean you are a bad mother.

I agree on not making it a punishment but on the other hand is it really moral to take a child / someone that does poo themseleves alot to a communal swimming pool and thus risk them pooing in the pool effected other people?

as its not just unhygnic but can be very dangerous to other people as their are a large number of very serous illnesses that can be contracted from poo particles and not only a illness point of view but also a commical one to clean a pool after a accident like that take quite some time and thus losing the pool money

So while not making it a punishment (take to the park or something instead) just dont go swimming until the problem resolves.

And also see another GP for atleast a second opinion.

I also agree that you should throw the pants away.
I'm going to suggest you don't get him to wash them.
Make an appointment to see the doctor, when you are able. Good luck. :)

Oh lord...... do NOT make him wash out his dirty pants unless you want to instil a sense of shame and embarrassment in him about this!

If he ends up feeling ashamed and embarrassed that is only going to add to the risk of him developing psychological problems around this, which in turn can maintain the problem. I say this as a child mental health practitioner.

The notion of 'natural consequences' (as mentioned by a poster above) have no place in this.

Throw the pants away!

Goodness, if your child were going through 4 or 5 pairs of pants a day would you throw them all away! Multiply that by several YEARS. Would cost a bloody fortune.

But don't make him wash them. It is bloody tempting at times, but it jsut leads to them worrying about being naughty and trying to hide it. It can be so hard to get them to tell you they have had an accident rather than hiding it. Often we only knew with ds1 because we could smell him. He'd stink of poo but still try to deny it. I ahve discovered dirty pants in various hiding places too. The worst was on a giant teddy he has. He'd put a pair of pants on him and I jsut thought it was cute for ages, and ages, until one day I realised he was wearing different pants. The rotten child had been layering them up, there were or 6 pairs of dirty pants one on top of the other on this bear!

Agree it sounds like chronic constipation, which isn't "behavioural" except in the sense that if left untreated it can destroy a child's self-confidence. See your doctor.

i suggested washing the pants as the op has repeatedly reminded him to go and he has not he needs to know what his mom does when he ignores i wouldn't have suggested it if she hadn't said that

withholding poo can cause constipation that situation needs to be addressed he needs to listen to his mom/dad recognize the signs not sit and have it overflow on him the doctor is going to tell them to get this part of the problem sorted themselves you don't want the doctors focusing on the behavior part because that will stop any progress on the medical side doctors can be reluctant to send in referrals if they think that a quick dose of the triple P program will do the trick iyswim i think there is a medical problem here but the behavior should be addressed too

fyi my daughter wet herself till she was eight years old and it was behavioral and it was aggravated by my mother telling her it was "OK" because she had just had a little brother and because she had a kidney problem the doctor tested her for everything till this slipped out she (the doctor) told her off actually said its not OK to wet yourself because you have had a baby brother at eight years old it was uncalled for and if she did it again she should hand-wash her OWN knickers and not make her poor mom do it for her i kind of sat there like but it worked

as i said though mine was behavior

Stop telling the OP to look at the ERIC website, shes already said that she has and does

incywincy.net and the fledglings website both sell swimwear for older children with a built in swim nappy, in case that is useful for anyone reading this thread.

Do you know how things are going at school? My dd is also 6, yr 1. Her night time wetting has recently been getting worse and worse and now I know why. A week ago she tearfully admitted to me that in year 1 they have to ask permission to go to the loo and that since this term she is feeling really shy to ask. I'm sure that hanging on desperate all day effects the muscle control down there.

I'm trying to encourage her gently to feel more confident and the teacher is aware and trying her best too. Hopefully this half term (we have this week off school here) will be a good opportunity to help get her regularly going to the loo during the day again.

Good luck :)

Op, in case you come back, I just want to share with you our situation.

DS1 suffered from chronic constipation, and we had the leakage/overflow situation happening.

BECAUSE of the constipation, his bowels were pressing against his bladder and blocking the area where the trigger/cue is for knowing when to do a wee. As a result, the bladder kept filling up with DS not knowing that he needed to go until his bladder was so full that it all leaked out. Scans revealed a distended bladder on top of the distended bowel we already knew about.

The two are intrinsically linked.

Get to a GP and get either Movicol or Sodium Picosulfate prescribed.

I know its hard to stay calm with it all when you really believe that he can do something about it, but chances are he really can't.

We had the same issue with my DC MakeItACider, they treated the constipation with Movicol (it can take a LONG time) and that also resolved the wetting.

It sounds very very likely to be constipation with faecal impaction and overflow. Which is extremely treatable, but when it reaches that point the best diet in the country isn't enough to do the job alone. Please go back to your GP, and if they're not helping, push to be referred onwards.

I don't know if inulin fibre is available without prescription (we live in Canada - here the brand name is Benefibre, but it is available as a generic as well). My DD has a structural abnormality that causes severe constipation, and adding a teaspoon or two of inulin fibre to 150 ml of juice has softened her stool significantly and is really helping with her bowel routine. As well, adequate hydration (or extra, especially when the weather is warmer or the child is extra active) can really make a difference.

Dealing with bowel challenges with children can be so frustrating and really make you question your ability as a parent. You are doing your best on your own - and asking for help is definitely not a sign of any shortcoming.

It's called encopresis, op.
And you were extremely rude to 3littlefrogs, who was merely pointing out that it is a medical issue, and not one that can be star-charted and reward base programmed out of existence.
The bowel can take up to six months to repair the nerve pathways until the child can feel the need to go to the toilet, even after the impaction and overflow is dealt with.

And she was being very clear, because even though encopresis is very common, it's also one of those things no one talks about, and tries to treat as a behavioural issue with star charts and such.

You should use your advanced search facility - there have been many mn threads on the subject.

As he is 6 and still having wet accidents during the day, you should ask your GP for referral to enuresis clinic. For night time enuresis they don't usually bother until 7, but day time wetting in a school aged child will get you in, depending on protocol in your area.

Ds1 was treated with a series of suppositories, plus what passes for movicol here. If this is the case, it does take a long time to resolve, and you can't remove the movicol dosage too sign - it has to be gradually reduced or you will be right back to square one again.

I am so sorry you and your son are going through this. I can see it is stressful. I think you were rude to three little frogs who may well have had more good advice to give.

Please do not go swimming ever if this may be likely to happen because it would be hugely embarrassing for your son, and you, and could be very dangerous for some people, like pregnant women using the pool, (or so I believe).

I hope you will go back to your GP and get help. Keep a record of how often this is happening. There are a lot of bugs going around but if this is more of a permanent issue then it needs sorting. Please do not make him wash his pants. It is not his fault, even if he knows he needs to go and has some fears or concerns, that is not his fault. I would be surprised if he were pooing his pants on purpose but even if he is that suggests another problem so again not his fault exactly. It is not just being naughty.

As far as wet at night I know girls still wetting at night at 9 so it is not unheard of but there is a medication to help with this and it still needs addressing at some point. I think 7 is the age you would need to see the GP for this but if you are going about the pooing then I would do them both at once.

Good luck, hope it works out OK.

If pooing in swimming pool is so dangerous and morally wrong why do they sell swim nappies and let toddlers use them?

I sympathise, but agree punishing him is wrong. Even if you ask and he won't go it is possible /likely this is because he isn't aware of the urge until too late. I would definitely seek a medical referral.

Simpler things like changes in eating habits can contribute. When my ds2 started having the key stage 1 free school dinners, the additional hot meal (and it was a full good one too!) instead of a packed lunch (or light lunch at home) caused an adjustment period...extra pooing, sometimes in the pants, for a few weeks until I realised what was going on and reduced his evening meal portions.

Years ago, my dearest friend's son was evidencing the same even as extreme as having an (fortunately, unnoticed by others) accident during a team sports event. She was incredibly distraught, thinking this was an emotional, developmental issue. Her pediatrician's advice was to begin by first assuming a physical cause, as other posters have suggested: treatment was a dose of Milk of Magnesia? (or some type of fiber supplement, can't remember) before bed each night and then having him sit on the toilet quietly and calmly for a period of time in the morning before school and trying to relax and have a movement. Over a fairly short period of time, success! And over time, his body apparently adjusted to a normal rhythm.